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340sb with 5 speed conversion? #32913
12/28/06 04:30 PM
12/28/06 04:30 PM
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Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Buschi340  Offline OP
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Hi everybody.
I want to swap a 5 speed behind my 340 with now tf 904 equiped 72 Dart.
I`ve read about Toyota supra 5 speeds with a Dakota 3.9 V6 Bellhousing. Chevy S10 tranny should fit on this Bellhousing too.

Anybody made or heard about this?

I don't wanna go the Keisler way cause its to expensive for me here in germany...

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32914
12/28/06 07:00 PM
12/28/06 07:00 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Chevy S-10 box won't survive if you plan to drive it like it is supposed to.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32915
12/29/06 12:48 AM
12/29/06 12:48 AM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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Working on the Toyota Supra/Magnum V6 bellhousing swap, but haven't gotten very far yet. A newer transmisison that would fit the Mag V6 bell is the MA5 that is very common now. Used in the Solstice/Sky roadsters, and also the Colorado trucks, and in some Isuzu SUV's as well. Much better synchronizers, and I think the trans has similar strength and gear ratios. You'll have some floor cutting to do, as it's very wide just in front of where the trans crossmember is. Haven't gotten that far with mine, though.

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32916
12/29/06 06:14 PM
12/29/06 06:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Quote:

Used in the Solstice/Sky roadsters, and also the Colorado trucks, and in some Isuzu SUV's




... not that common cars here... Supra is easier to find. What kind of supra tranny are you using ( year, etc..)? And fits every tranny on every Magnum V6 bellhousing or are there differences?

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32917
12/29/06 07:25 PM
12/29/06 07:25 PM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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The Supra transmission is one from a 88-92 turbo, and the model is the R154. The trans from the non-turbo should also bolt up, but is not as durable as the R154. The Dakota bellhousing was used with the AX15 transmission, and both the R154 and the AX15 are built by Aisin-Warner. The bolt pattern on the transmission is very common, and was used with a variety of vehicles/transmissions. The Solstice/Sky aren't common over here, but the Colorado/Canyon trucks are, as well as the Isuzus I mentioned. I'm not familiar with what European cars may have come with these transmissions (other than the Supra), but there must be quite a few. Here's an article that covers MANY of the possible swap options for this family of transmissions:

Giant Transmission Swap Article on Jeeps-Offroad.com

Lots of good reading there.

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32918
12/30/06 07:53 AM
12/30/06 07:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Thanks.
I know this page but that much information is confusing me.

Whar clutch system (from what car and hydraulic or not) are you planing?

Do you have the hole drilled for the pilot bearing? In my case I don't really know yet...

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32919
12/30/06 05:50 PM
12/30/06 05:50 PM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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OK, here's my plan, although it's still pretty much in the plan stages.

Flywheel - going to use the 93 Dakota V-6 unit, as it's internally balanced, and set up for a "normal" 10.5" clutch & pressure plate. Note that the Dakota flywheel is 143-tooth, like the 11" clutches.

Clutch - Advance Adapters makes a conversion clutch for the Toyota spline in a 10.5" diameter. It's not the most heavy-duty piece, but it's built for off-roading, so it's no slouch, and at $120, it's by far the cheapest option I've seen. RAM Clutches will make me a Powergrip clutch disk for about $250, and I'm waiting an estimate for a Kevlar clutch disk from Superior Clutches. I expect that setup to be $5-600

Linkage/TOB - The Dakota bellhousing is already set up for a hydraulic TOB, so that's what I'm going to use. The clutch MC and slave are all pretty common on Dakotas, and have a decent reputation.

Pilot Bearing - The Dakota bellhousing is about 1/2" deeper than the normal 4-speed bellhousing, and the input shaft on the trans is shorter as well. I'm *PRETTY SURE* that I'll end up using the sleeve portion of the Magnum roller pilot bearing, and a custom bronze bushing for the pilot on the Toyota trans. I MAY be able to use the Toyota roller bearing, but I haven't put my hands on one yet, and I haven't mocked up the whole system to see how it's all REALLY going to work out. The sketches and measurements I've made so far seem like they'll work, but I won't know for sure until I put parts together for real.

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32920
12/30/06 07:45 PM
12/30/06 07:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Buschi340  Offline OP
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that sounds that you know what you're talking about. Do you use the Mopar clutch pedal? What shifter do you wanna use? How much do I have to open the tunnel?
Hope I don't stress you but I wanna go this way and need answers from experienced...

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32921
12/31/06 03:37 AM
12/31/06 03:37 AM

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so wait, you can use the r154 on a 340 motor??? what about a 360 motor??? i know it will withstand the power,,,

also what other items are needed for the swap

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? #32922
01/01/07 03:52 PM
01/01/07 03:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32923
01/01/07 04:52 PM
01/01/07 04:52 PM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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Quote:

that sounds that you know what you're talking about.




I wouldn't go that far, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject. I also got a good deal on the R154 trans, so it's worth a shot for me.

Quote:

Do you use the Mopar clutch pedal?



The pedals I'm planning on using are the OEM pedals that came in my car. Not sure what I'll have to do to make them work, but I don't imagine it will be a big deal. I'm sure there are some aftermarket pedals that would do the job, too.

Quote:

What shifter do you wanna use?



I'm going to start out with the Supra shifter, but it may not be long enough. It's pretty short, and will be centered on the trans tunnel. Some Dakotas have interesting shifter handles, so I'm looking at those, too.

Quote:

How much do I have to open the tunnel?



I have no idea, but it's a fat transmission. My floor is already cut for a 4-speed with factory hump, so it's no biggie if I have to open up the other side a little bit, too. With the shifter in the center, you MAY be able to get rid of the hump and run automatic-style carpet in the car.

Quote:

Hope I don't stress you but I wanna go this way and need answers from experienced...



No stress on me, but I don't have all the answers you need either. I'm still trying to figure the swap out, and the only way I'll be able to do it for sure is to DO IT. All I have now is a bunch of internet bookmarks and a few parts in the garage. I need a junk A-body that I can hack on, but my wife wouldn't tolerate that very well...

As for the power handling, I would guess 3-400hp would be fine, more than that and you really ought to look at a different trans. With all the cutting that will be needed, if you're going to make big power, you may as well step up to a TKO or T-56.

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32924
01/01/07 05:13 PM
01/01/07 05:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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is there a question I didn't already asked???

Hm, how do connect the driveshaft with the tranny?

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32925
01/01/07 07:44 PM
01/01/07 07:44 PM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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That looks relatively easy at this point. The Toyota driveshaft uses u-joints that are almost identical to the small 7260 Mopar u-joint. The outside diameter of the u-joint cap is larger on the Toyota, but the inside diameter, where the roller bearings ride, is exactly the same. I bought two u-joints, one Toyota and one Mopar, and switched two of the caps. This will let me use the Toyota yokee on the small-joint Mopar driveshaft.

At this point, I'm not 100% sure if there will be any issues centering the joint, but it might be solved with different thickness snap rings.

Like I said, I'm working on this little bits at a time, but haven't completed much but data gathering yet...

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32926
01/02/07 02:10 AM
01/02/07 02:10 AM
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Wisconsin,USA
Bzzzz Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

that sounds that you know what you're talking about.




I wouldn't go that far, but I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject. I also got a good deal on the R154 trans, so it's worth a shot for me.

Quote:

Do you use the Mopar clutch pedal?



The pedals I'm planning on using are the OEM pedals that came in my car. Not sure what I'll have to do to make them work, but I don't imagine it will be a big deal. I'm sure there are some aftermarket pedals that would do the job, too.

Quote:

What shifter do you wanna use?



I'm going to start out with the Supra shifter, but it may not be long enough. It's pretty short, and will be centered on the trans tunnel. Some Dakotas have interesting shifter handles, so I'm looking at those, too.

Quote:

How much do I have to open the tunnel?



I have no idea, but it's a fat transmission. My floor is already cut for a 4-speed with factory hump, so it's no biggie if I have to open up the other side a little bit, too. With the shifter in the center, you MAY be able to get rid of the hump and run automatic-style carpet in the car.

Quote:

Hope I don't stress you but I wanna go this way and need answers from experienced...



No stress on me, but I don't have all the answers you need either. I'm still trying to figure the swap out, and the only way I'll be able to do it for sure is to DO IT. All I have now is a bunch of internet bookmarks and a few parts in the garage. I need a junk A-body that I can hack on, but my wife wouldn't tolerate that very well...

As for the power handling, I would guess 3-400hp would be fine, more than that and you really ought to look at a different trans. With all the cutting that will be needed, if you're going to make big power, you may as well step up to a TKO or T-56.

Clair




Does the T-56 or TKO bolt up to the magnum bell housing with out all the mods and not using the using the Keisler Conv? working on different mopowered project. thanks


2005 Dodge 1500 Slt Hemi
2008 Chrysler PT cruiser
1984 Dodge D250
1978 Dodge D100 Adventurer
1964 Meyers Manx Dunebuggy


Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Bzzzz] #32927
01/02/07 11:06 AM
01/02/07 11:06 AM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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No, the Magnum bellhousing - and we're talking about the AX-5 / AX-15 Dakota bellhousing - is unique, and won't fit any other type of transmission. The Aisin-Warner trans pattern is unlike anything else in the "normal" transmission world, and uses dowel pins to locate the bell on the trans. See attached pic.

The Viper T-56 has it's own funky partial bellhousing, and the GM F-car (Camaro/Firebird) T-56 is GM-specific. You can run a GM to Mopar adapter bellhousing that would do the trick, though.

The TKO (as far as I know) uses a "normal" round input bearing retainer, but you'd have to match the bell depth and bearing DIA to the trans, and the Keisler bell is the only one I know of that makes it a bolt-on. I don't think there's any magic in the process, but they have done all the leg work to make it happen.

The big things with all these units is that they will require some surgery to make them fit.

Clair

3181031-All_trannies3.JPG (3056 downloads)
Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Bzzzz] #32928
01/02/07 11:25 AM
01/02/07 11:25 AM
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Quote:

Does the T-56 or TKO bolt up to the magnum bell housing with out all the mods and not using the using the Keisler Conv? working on different mopowered project. thanks




I think the most direct way to mate a Tremec TKO to a small block Mopar is to buy the Lakewood Small Block Mopar to Muncie bellhousing and buy a GM spec TKO and bolt it up.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32929
01/02/07 04:34 PM
01/02/07 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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Clair,
I really apreciate the lot of information you gave. There's light at the horizon....
Hardest thing for me seems to get the Dodge Bellhousing .........

Michael

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32930
01/02/07 05:49 PM
01/02/07 05:49 PM
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Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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Check with some of the diesel-powered Chryslers & Jeeps over there. The little 2.4L Italian diesel used in the Jeep Liberty over here APPEARS to use the same bellhousing as the Dakotas. There's a photo of it on the Jeeps-Offroad thread. Not sure what flywheel the diesel uses, though.

Clair

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #32931
01/02/07 08:02 PM
01/02/07 08:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
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Buschi340 Offline OP
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maybe some others are interested or clair has news...

btw, I've subscribed at the jeep page...

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #32932
01/10/07 05:02 PM
01/10/07 05:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 468
Germany, Northcoast
Buschi340 Offline OP
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