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Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? #328160
05/25/09 12:39 PM
05/25/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,978
Southaven, MS
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BossRide Offline OP
top fuel
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Southaven, MS
I've asked around and all my friends say it's "just how it is." I am having trouble believing that Mopars rolled off the showroom floors with a hard starting condition.

Cold- Turn the key, push the pedal to the floor to set the choke, Boom! Starts right up.

Runs good, drives nice... pull in and park... go to leave and either it fires right off if less than, say 15 minutes has passed, or it spins over and over and finally catches.

Trial and error of different procedures (pumping the gas, not touching the gas, giving it full throttle or partial throttle) is basically all the same.

Fresh 360... tuned up... (good plugs, wires, cap, etc..) new fuel tank, filter, and pump, 600cfm Holley carb with electric choke, timing on the money... what is the secret? Any thoughts on what to check or how to remedy?

Does YOURS fire right off when warm?


The Blue Goose

My instagram: Bossride
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BossRide] #328161
05/25/09 12:44 PM
05/25/09 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 357
The Garden State
LimelightCuda Offline
enthusiast
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The Garden State
My slant six equipped Scamp does the same thing. I think it is due to it boiling the fuel when it sits after it is fully warmed up but I'm not sure. My Barracuda with a 440 does not have this problem. My former Barracuda with a 318, which I had many years ago, would start up with a flick of the ignition switch, you didn't even have to give it any gas or even get in the car if it was warmed up.


Phil

1970 Barracuda Gran Coupe
1970 A66 Challenger Convertible
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: LimelightCuda] #328162
05/25/09 01:04 PM
05/25/09 01:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Long Island, NY USA
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BergmanAutoCraft Offline
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Couple reasons.

First, fuel boils at 100 deg F. This was not so back in the day.

The only place fuel usually boils is in the bowls, because here it is not under pressure.

During heat soak, the fuel evaporates, and sometimes pushes out of the bowls into the motor, causing a flooding condition momentarily.

The extended cranking is to refill the bowls.

I have found wood spacers, and a cool running motor to comat this pretty well. I am also a proponent of electric fans, which keep good airflow over the motor at low speeds.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BossRide] #328163
05/25/09 01:16 PM
05/25/09 01:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 375
NE Oklahoma
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71valiant Offline
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71valiant  Offline
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NE Oklahoma

My A-body has headers and they go right by my starter. I think it gets the starter hot and it cranks real slow when its hot.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: 71valiant] #328164
05/25/09 01:47 PM
05/25/09 01:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,327
Glendale, AZ
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69L78Nova Offline
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Glendale, AZ
All my stuff starts within 1-2 seconds, whether hot or cold


1969 Nova
454/M21/3.31
Mild mid-11 second weekend cruiser

1994 F150 XLT Super Cab 2WD
5.0/4R70W/3.55
(Daily driver)
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: LimelightCuda] #328165
05/25/09 01:54 PM
05/25/09 01:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
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1_WILD_RT  Offline
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Mine lights off instantly... I think the new fuel boils off due to engine heat.. In a modern fuel injected car where the fuel is injected & the fuel is always pressurized it's a non-issue but a carburator where the fuel sits on a hot engine....I've blocked the crossover & added a heat shield...

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: 69L78Nova] #328166
05/25/09 01:55 PM
05/25/09 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,565
tennessee
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pushbutton Offline
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tennessee
Quote:

All my stuff starts within 1-2 seconds, whether hot or cold


Man thats fast! Wish my stuff would start that quick.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: pushbutton] #328167
05/25/09 02:17 PM
05/25/09 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,178
Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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Someplace you aren't
Mine starts fast, I have aluminum intake, heat riser blocked. Eddy carb. No spacer, just two gaskets.

Is your timing chain tight?

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #328168
05/25/09 02:52 PM
05/25/09 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
k.i.s.s. next time BEFORE you crank it see if there's an A/P shot then pull the coil to dist wire & hold it 1/4" from ground & have someone crank it.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #328169
05/25/09 06:23 PM
05/25/09 06:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,978
Southaven, MS
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BossRide Offline OP
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Southaven, MS
Quote:

Mine starts fast, I have aluminum intake, heat riser blocked. Eddy carb. No spacer, just two gaskets.

Is your timing chain tight?




I have an Offy aluminum intake, and the timing chain should be tight, the motor has around 5,000 miles on it since the rebuild.


The Blue Goose

My instagram: Bossride
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BossRide] #328170
05/25/09 08:06 PM
05/25/09 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Like said above fuel boiling over. This is true especially with alcohol blendas they boil at a lot lower temp than even the poor gas we have now. HOLD the gas pedal to the floor while cranking till it starts allow to clean out just like you would a flooded engine. Essentially that is what you have.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BossRide] #328171
05/25/09 08:20 PM
05/25/09 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,622
Millinocket, Maine
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JonC Offline
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Millinocket, Maine
This was my condition at one time and I found out the vacuum advance was hooked up to the wrong port on the carb. Started good cold but terrible hot. Just a long shot.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: JonC] #328172
05/25/09 09:18 PM
05/25/09 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,978
Southaven, MS
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BossRide Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,978
Southaven, MS
Quote:

This was my condition at one time and I found out the vacuum advance was hooked up to the wrong port on the carb. Started good cold but terrible hot. Just a long shot.




I'm going to double check that, along with the coil wire and see about getting a heat shield or carb spacer.

Thanks for all of the tips and help.


The Blue Goose

My instagram: Bossride
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BossRide] #328173
05/25/09 11:31 PM
05/25/09 11:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 902
Seattle, WA
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rss Offline
super stock
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Seattle, WA
This might make you feel better.

Mine has gotten to the point that it won't even start when warm. Nearly had it towed last week when I shut it down to fill up with gas. By the time the tow truck arrived it started and I was able to drive home. Fires up great cold, runs great, but if I turn it off and try to restart hot I can just crank away till the battery is nearly dead.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: rss] #328174
05/26/09 12:11 AM
05/26/09 12:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit Offline
mopar
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Posts: 571
Western NC
Mine did the same thing, and recently I put a wooden spacer there to help. It helped out some, but not much. Even with the wooden spacer the carb is too hot to the touch once the engine is up to temp. No heat riser or anything. I'm thinking about using some fuel line insulation next to see if that will help. My fuel line runs cloe to the header on the passenger side, and is routed up very close to the front of the engine block before it ties into the carb.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: 68Bullit] #328175
05/26/09 12:20 AM
05/26/09 12:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

Mine did the same thing, and recently I put a wooden spacer there to help. It helped out some, but not much. Even with the wooden spacer the carb is too hot to the touch once the engine is up to temp. No heat riser or anything. I'm thinking about using some fuel line insulation next to see if that will help. My fuel line runs cloe to the header on the passenger side, and is routed up very close to the front of the engine block before it ties into the carb.




If your fuel is boiling out like that your best bet is to just switch to an electric fuel pump with a return style regulator. That way when you turn your key to 'run' and the pump kicks on it fills up your carb bowls and the return style regulator keeps the fuel in the lines cooler plus stops the pump from overflowing your carb and pushing fuel past the needle/seat.

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: BergmanAutoCraft] #328176
05/26/09 12:22 AM
05/26/09 12:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
Quote:


During heat soak, the fuel evaporates, and sometimes pushes out of the bowls into the motor, causing a flooding condition momentarily.





How would this happen? Would not the evaporating/boiling fuel simply vent out of the bowl vent tubes?

Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: 68Bullit] #328177
05/26/09 12:24 AM
05/26/09 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
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1_WILD_RT  Offline
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Today? Who Knows?
Seriously try a heat shield, it deflects most of the engine heat around the carb...In order to clear the linkage I had to trim one corner a little but it works great... Not a pretty as some other spacers but more effective & I care more about function as I like to drive my car... And if your gonna drive it it's gotta start..

5252614-medium108-70.jpg (556 downloads)
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #328178
05/26/09 01:05 AM
05/26/09 01:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Oregon
Quote:

Quote:


During heat soak, the fuel evaporates, and sometimes pushes out of the bowls into the motor, causing a flooding condition momentarily.





How would this happen? Would not the evaporating/boiling fuel simply vent out of the bowl vent tubes?




Unless it overloads the vents I watched as the secondary area on my carb got nice and moist with fuel after shutting it off once, as I listened to it boil

A wood spacer is going to be my next project.


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Exactly WHY is my car hard to start when warm? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #328179
05/26/09 01:13 AM
05/26/09 01:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

How would this happen? Would not the evaporating/boiling fuel simply vent out of the bowl vent tubes?


It'd depend if it was heavier than air or not & it's probably still evaporating when he comes back then it gets sucked in when he cranks it


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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