modern alt. swaps for BB, highest idle amps? update
#32024
11/19/06 05:33 PM
11/19/06 05:33 PM
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Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
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Chasing some gremlins, low idle voltage at noght with headlights and fans on, have the stock 65 amp 2 field alternator.
Between the headlamps, electric fans, efi, and ignition, I am probably real close to that number. I would lie to know:
what is the rating at idle of the more common modern alternator swaps that you have done?
Which is the easiest to do?
Do they have a press on pulley? or is the shaft the same dia as the std mopar unit?
thanks
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Jerry]
#32027
11/19/06 07:19 PM
11/19/06 07:19 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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i put on a 100 watt one with no issues
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Jerry]
#32028
11/19/06 10:08 PM
11/19/06 10:08 PM
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whiplash
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Quote:
i'v egot a 120 on ym serpentine big block setup. this same style also has a 140 amp available.
Jerry, More details, please.
pic, alt year models, any mods to the stock brackets, etc...
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32029
11/19/06 10:37 PM
11/19/06 10:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 902 Bellevue, WA
Blackwidow69
Ring Knocker
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Ring Knocker
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Whiplash, I converted over to a one wire internal regulated Powermaster unit and have had good luck. I don't have all the electrical stuff you do but I bought the 74191 model from Summit and it does only say 75 amp but mine came with a Proof of Performance tag that shows 56 amps at idle and 91 amps at highway speed. Although it does say 2400 rpm below the idle statement so not to sure who idles their engines at 2400 rpm. Either way it outperforms the 75 amp stated number and should be enough for you. Plus it gets rid of the voltage regulator if you have one and knocks down the number of wires that may be causing you issues. It also mounts right into your current bracket as it is the same type of housing. I put in a Mallory Unilite as well so no ballast resistor for me either which really simplifies my engine compartment. But be careful putting any of these big alternators in if you are using a stock wiring harness anywhere. Good luck with your hunt. Todd
1969 Ply Roadrunner, 383 4-speed on street tires.
3,830 lbs race weight.
Best 1/4: 13.1 @ 106.83
440 & overdrive 4 speed going in.
2005 Power Wagon 35X12.5 KM2's
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blackwidow69]
#32030
11/19/06 11:20 PM
11/19/06 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI
Jerry
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heres a pic of the kit... i primarily built this kit so i wouldn't have to futz with all the different bracket and pulley combos. also i switch the engine over to efi with a megasquirt computer and have had no electrical problems. i also run dual electric fans and nice stereo. i know this might now fit with your supercharger setup, but i'd be willing to look into modifying it since i'm hoping to put a supercharger on my 440 as well.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blackwidow69]
#32031
11/20/06 08:36 AM
11/20/06 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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whiplash
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Quote:
Whiplash, I converted over to a one wire internal regulated Powermaster unit and have had good luck. I don't have all the electrical stuff you do but I bought the 74191 model from Summit and it does only say 75 amp but mine came with a Proof of Performance tag that shows 56 amps at idle and 91 amps at highway speed. Although it does say 2400 rpm below the idle statement so not to sure who idles their engines at 2400 rpm. Either way it outperforms the 75 amp stated number and should be enough for you. Plus it gets rid of the voltage regulator if you have one and knocks down the number of wires that may be causing you issues. It also mounts right into your current bracket as it is the same type of housing. I put in a Mallory Unilite as well so no ballast resistor for me either which really simplifies my engine compartment. But be careful putting any of these big alternators in if you are using a stock wiring harness anywhere. Good luck with your hunt. Todd
You wouldn't happen to have a part number, would you? I'm a little hesitant to go with a non-OEM application that I can't get at a local parts stor because it is my daily driver, I'd have to borrow a car if the alt cr@ps out....
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Jerry]
#32032
11/20/06 08:38 AM
11/20/06 08:38 AM
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whiplash
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Jerry, Do you have a kit for just the alt?
And is the alt a press fit? I have a march serpentine setup that is a press fit alt pulley.
What about the guys who adapted the mid-late 80's GM style alternator? how are they at idle for amp capacity?
Thanks all...
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32034
11/20/06 11:03 AM
11/20/06 11:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
super gas
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super gas
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Quote:
What about the guys who adapted the mid-late 80's GM style alternator? how are they at idle for amp capacity?
I know this isn`t a serpentine pulley but they are available with one, I went with this specific piece because it comes with a V and that`s what I needed, All of the later GM`s will have a bolt on pulley and March makes a pulley for them so that is a minor issue. I looked thru alot of different case styles and this app fits OE brackets with no mods, the only thing that needs to be fabbed is a rear spacer, It needs to be 3 inches long, it is off of a 89 caddy with a 5.0 liter, I`ve seen 46 amps out of it at idle (850 rpm) and it is rated at 105. With all the crap on my car I have had no issues and to date it has slightly over 180 6500+ rpm shift 1/4 mile passes and 8-9000 street miles with no issues. The plus is it is easily available, which was a concern.. There are lots of ways to upgrade, this is just my worth.
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32035
11/20/06 12:00 PM
11/20/06 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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whiplash
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Blown, That's the kind of alternator I was looking for, now I just need to find the application with a 6 rib pulley, I don't mind running the stock 6 rib while I shake things down..
How did you wire it up?
thanks again.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Jerry]
#32037
11/20/06 12:41 PM
11/20/06 12:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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whiplash
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Jerry,
Not a bad idea, the march crank pulley is 6", don't know what the stock ratio is.
Do you have the capability to make crank pullies? I was lloking for a crank pulley that has a 6 rib and 8 rib of 6-7" in diameter, can you do that?
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32038
11/20/06 01:34 PM
11/20/06 01:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
super gas
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super gas
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If I remember right there is a application for the same year caddy with a different engine that has the same case clocking with a serpentine pulley, tho I don`t remember how many ribs.
Personally and after fighting the OE cryco alternator(3 of them), I wouldn`t even try to use one with anything other than a bone stock configuration, the only way a OE chrysler alternator will even come close to the output of any late alternator especially at low speeds is if lightening hits it. Just my injectors (16) draw close to 22 amps at 60%..add in 2 fuel pumps,fans,inverter for a laptop,ECU,MSD,and just the load of the normal crap in the car and a OE alternator dosen`t stand a chance. Wiring diagram is attached, i`ve done several of these for people and walked several others thru doing it for themselves and everybody has been satisfyed. If you subscribe to the madelectrical theory (I don`t) You can run the "S" (sense) wire to a common distribution point for "supposedly" better voltage sense, but that is your choice.
Rick
edit: I`ll add this to....if you are running EFI with a OE chrysler alternator and you think it is ok, Go take a look at your Gross Voltage correction (if you have this ability)while at idle and cruise, you won`t like what you see.
Blown71X V2.0 under construction
71 Cuda 383 4-SPD (maybe for sale)
2010 Challenger B5 Classic
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32041
11/20/06 04:22 PM
11/20/06 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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whiplash
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Quote:
Feets If I remember right there is a application for the same year caddy with a different engine that has the same case clocking with a serpentine pulley, tho I don`t remember how many ribs.
edit: I`ll add this to....if you are running EFI with a OE chrysler alternator and you think it is ok, Go take a look at your Gross Voltage correction (if you have this ability)while at idle and cruise, you won`t like what you see.
exactly what is driving this post.
Is that a CS-130 alternator?
In the wiring diagram, that assumes a 1 field application, correct? I upgraded to the 2 field with the solid state regulator, so what do I do with the other field wire?
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32042
11/20/06 05:30 PM
11/20/06 05:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
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super gas
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Quote:
Is that a CS-130 alternator?
Yes
Quote:
In the wiring diagram, that assumes a 1 field application, correct? I upgraded to the 2 field with the solid state regulator, so what do I do with the other field wire?
Having an isolated or grounded field alternator is moot at this point, all that is required is a 12 volt switched feed to the "turn on" on the CS (wire with the resistor) I drew up that diagram for someone that had a isolated field system hence the reference to hooking it to the existing field "feed" wire, you can get that switched feed from anywhere you want. It is internally regulated so just tie back your added field return wire and toss the external regulator.
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32043
11/20/06 10:06 PM
11/20/06 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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whiplash
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(insert smiley with lightbulb turning on overhead) got it, thanks!!
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: AndyF]
#32045
11/21/06 12:28 AM
11/21/06 12:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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Andy are you doing these for small blocks?
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: AndyF]
#32047
11/21/06 09:28 AM
11/21/06 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,920 n.e. pa.
65rbdodge
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i got a 1 wire powermaster alt. and brackets from www.magnumhp.com it was a really easy swap. my car used to not charge at idle now it charges great.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: challengermike]
#32048
11/21/06 10:44 AM
11/21/06 10:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
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super gas
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Quote:
So is it ok to leave the factory amp gauge hooked up?I see in the diagram it is.I have heard that the connection at the bulkhead connector and the amp gauge couldn't handle that may amps?Or is it OK because you have another wire going to the battery also?
challengermike The way that is wired it effectivily bypasses the factory amp guage, which is a must on any alternator upgrade, the factory wiring and bulkhead connector will not tollerate any of these late model higher output alternators for even a short time. That diagram was done that way (keeping existing wire to alternator) so as not to hack up a factory harness for those that may want a better charging system, but have the option to return everything to stock with little effort.
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32049
11/21/06 11:32 AM
11/21/06 11:32 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 150 Arkansas
defiance
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I'm using a 150A stinger GM style big case alternator. Works perfectly with the March Perf serpentine kit. The only think I had to do differently is the adjuster bar for the alt - I had to move the mounting point to one of the timing chain cover bolts. The spacer is pretty close to the harmonic balancer (around 5mm clearance at the top), but that hasn't been a problem so far. I've got an MS, A/C, 1400W (RMS) stereo, alarm, aftermarket lights (soon to be HID), 4 (ran 5 for a while) electric fans (2 for a/c condenser, 2 for radiator) etc.etc. and I can idle with everything on @ 800rpms at 14.5v. Here's some pics of the alternator, brackets, pulleys, etc... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2324498/4Unfortunately, the changed rod mounting point isn't really visible in the pics... I'd take a pic of the changed bracket, but everything's all apart right now for a rebuild.
Last edited by defiance; 11/21/06 11:37 AM.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32050
11/21/06 03:30 PM
11/21/06 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
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I've got a link at home to someone that makes a kit for 100+ amps out of a square back and round back alternator. What's wrong with doing that and keeping the stock looking unit?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: defiance]
#32051
11/21/06 03:32 PM
11/21/06 03:32 PM
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Dragula
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I had a big issue with needing a good amount of amps at idle. I currently run a 8mm cog system with GM 100amp unit over driven 2:1 with a 8mm cog pulley from these guys http://productengr.com/alternators.htmand a BDS blower pulley cut down to 0.75 wide for the crank and a low mount bracket from Jegs for a BBC....Works very well even with a 100amp alternator. See attached pic
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: feets]
#32053
11/21/06 07:19 PM
11/21/06 07:19 PM
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whiplash
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Quote:
I've got a link at home to someone that makes a kit for 100+ amps out of a square back and round back alternator. What's wrong with doing that and keeping the stock looking unit?
I would love to do that, but if that alt [Email]cr@ps[/Email] out, I have to sideline my daily and only car and borrow one while i mail order another. If I can fine the correct vehicle application for a cs130, it is:
-a direct bolt in -available at 90% of parts stores across the US -capable of providing the amps I need -allows me to remove the voltage regulator -simplifies the wiring harness -I can relocate my ignition box (really only my concern)
on top of that, it was my understanding that most of the "rebuilds" that promise more amps accomplish it but at the sacrifice of idle amps, which is where I really need it.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: feets]
#32054
11/21/06 10:07 PM
11/21/06 10:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
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super gas
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Quote:
I've got a link at home to someone that makes a kit for 100+ amps out of a square back and round back alternator. What's wrong with doing that and keeping the stock looking unit?
Show me one of those that actually will have ANY idle output amperage and i`ll go back in my hole, as I said before THE only way any of the old style mopar alternators will do anything worthy of getting excited about is if lightening hits them....You can put perfume on a pig....it`s STILL a pig.
challengermike The original feed for the inside of the car comes from the fuse link at the starter relay stud, which is hooked to the positive battery cable, in the wiring diagram you will notice there is a 8 guage wire from the alternator output stud to the battery positive, With the original amp guage wire ALSO hooked to the alternator stud you have now essentially jumped across the 2 amp guage wires eliminating current flow thru the guage but giving you 2 wires and close to double the current carrying capability to feed the inside. THE sole reason it is wired this way is to give the owner a option to have a better charging system and NOT have to hack up a factory harness should it be needed to be returned to stock. It is NOT necessary to hook it up this way if you either prefer to do an internal guage bypass at the cluster and feed it directly from the battery/starter relay, or don`t care about keeping things so they can be returned at some point. All that is required and mandatory is the 8 guage from the alternator to the battery positive. No matter which way you choose, PLEASE make sure this wire is protected either by fuse link or a proper sized fuse/breaker.
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32055
11/21/06 10:21 PM
11/21/06 10:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062 Amherst,NY
challengermike
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I understand now,Thanks,So instead of all the current going through the inside of the car and back out it can split the current to half in the car and half directly to the battery.But because the 8 gauge wire is directly to the battery the inside of the car isnt alternating current anymore its direct.
Last edited by challengermike; 11/21/06 11:14 PM.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: feets]
#32056
11/21/06 10:49 PM
11/21/06 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,394 The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
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Quote:
I've got a link at home to someone that makes a kit for 100+ amps out of a square back and round back alternator. What's wrong with doing that and keeping the stock looking unit?
I installed on of those kits and yes it does increase output, I measured a peak of 94 amps. The downside is it DROPS idle output by .5V and this is with a 10Ga wire running direct to the battery, amp gauge bypassed, bulkhead connector eliminated.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Skeptic]
#32057
11/22/06 01:28 AM
11/22/06 01:28 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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I installed on of those kits and yes it does increase output, I measured a peak of 94 amps. The downside is it DROPS idle output by .5V and this is with a 10Ga wire running direct to the battery, amp gauge bypassed, bulkhead connector eliminated.
What brand of alt are you talking about?
Im looking at going with a tuffstuff 100 amp, single wire unit, stock case style. The alt is rated for 58 amps at a idle speed of 750, assuming a 3 to 1 pulley ratio. Just wondering what brand you have.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: 70blackfish]
#32059
11/22/06 08:26 AM
11/22/06 08:26 AM
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whiplash
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Quote:
I have a 140 amp 1 wire, that fit with my stock big block alt brackets.
want a picture?
absolutely, plus who makes it, if its a stock application, etc. thanks.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32060
11/22/06 09:39 AM
11/22/06 09:39 AM
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whiplash
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Blown71x, I found an auction for a cs130, parts stores around here are only selling remans. Is this the one I need to fit the stock brackets?
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Von]
#32061
11/22/06 10:35 AM
11/22/06 10:35 AM
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Quote:
I installed on of those kits and yes it does increase output, I measured a peak of 94 amps. The downside is it DROPS idle output by .5V and this is with a 10Ga wire running direct to the battery, amp gauge bypassed, bulkhead connector eliminated.
What brand of alt are you talking about?
Im looking at going with a tuffstuff 100 amp, single wire unit, stock case style. The alt is rated for 58 amps at a idle speed of 750, assuming a 3 to 1 pulley ratio. Just wondering what brand you have.
read the quote in my post
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: feets]
#32062
11/22/06 11:05 AM
11/22/06 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,394 The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
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Quote:
I've got a link at home to someone that makes a kit for 100+ amps out of a square back and round back alternator. What's wrong with doing that and keeping the stock looking unit?
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle? *DELETED*
[Re: Skeptic]
#32063
11/22/06 11:27 AM
11/22/06 11:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302 Middle of the US
Verga
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302
Middle of the US
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Post deleted by Verga
Last edited by Verga; 11/22/06 11:31 AM.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Verga]
#32065
11/22/06 12:23 PM
11/22/06 12:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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c'mon, guys, I'm trying to get somewhere here, just the facts...
I went to pep boys, found an alt for a 95 impala, cs130, with a serpentine pulley, the bolt holes are 12/6 o'clock (180°, opposed) that looks like it will fit.
The stock alternator has a bolt to bolt distance around 6.5", this one is 7.25". The spacer I should need up top is 3", as stated above. I should be able to rotate the bottom braket down a little and still have some adjustment for tightening...
Now, I need to find a connector for it, the connector on the alt is square, 1 larger connector and 3 smaller ones
blown, is this plug similar to what you have? where did you get the connector? thanks again.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32066
11/22/06 12:38 PM
11/22/06 12:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302 Middle of the US
Verga
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302
Middle of the US
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Quote:
c'mon, guys, I'm trying to get somewhere here, just the facts...
Me too. I need the info also.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: 70blackfish]
#32068
11/22/06 12:49 PM
11/22/06 12:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302 Middle of the US
Verga
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 302
Middle of the US
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Quote:
mine looks like it the same as blown71x but chrome, its 140 amp 1 wire, it cost 275.00 at valley alt. in canoga park ca. they had to build it, 14 volts at idle with my both my fans on and fuel pump and msd.
I realize Im borderline hijacking this post, but Im gonna give them a call. In case anybody else need the number here it is (818) 882-7511.
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32070
11/22/06 02:00 PM
11/22/06 02:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249 Las Vegas
JeffC
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
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Quote:
Blown, That's the kind of alternator I was looking for, now I just need to find the application with a 6 rib pulley, I don't mind running the stock 6 rib while I shake things down..
How did you wire it up?
thanks again.
Cadillac went to the serpentine belt in 91 on the RWD fleetwoods with the 5.0. That mite be what your looking for. ac-delco pn 321-1068 100amp
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: JeffC]
#32071
11/22/06 02:16 PM
11/22/06 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,215 Cornfield. IN
Clair
Pot Stirrer #4
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Pot Stirrer #4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,215
Cornfield. IN
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: 70blackfish]
#32074
11/22/06 05:07 PM
11/22/06 05:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928
A tad North of Indy
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Quote:
if you have a 1 wire you dont need a pigtail
True...BUT..as was posted, He is wanting something that is easily available in most auto parts stores in case something dies, One wire`s are not. With this extremely simple wiring setup an "off the shelf" unit can be used without fear of having to find a one wire....which personally I don`t care for anyway.
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32075
11/22/06 10:05 PM
11/22/06 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,816 Alton, IL
Dakota_Don
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,816
Alton, IL
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i looked at advanced autos web site, and for 89 caddy i didnt see a 5.0, but it looks like any other GM CS series alt, an according to them is a 120 amp, and the price starts at about 95 bucks online, can the cs series be clocked??
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Blown71X]
#32078
11/24/06 10:55 AM
11/24/06 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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I googled that part number, here's some more stock applications to ask for, and a link to a checy site that also shows the retrofit for older chvy's: Link>>>> http://home.centurytel.net/rshannon/cs130.htm Are there any size differences between the CS130 and the CS144? CS series wiring pin-out: S = Heavy gauge wire to the battery supply (loop to output post on rear of alternator). F = not used. L = Small gauge wire that comes from the idiot light and energizes the alternator. P = not used. AC Delco sells a SI-to-CS adapter pigtail or you'll need to purchase a new end for the CS alternator. I got mine from the local salvage yard for $2.50. If you go the conversion pigtail route, be aware that there are TWO TYPES, a non-resistor model for use WITH the idiot light, and a resistor model for use WITHOUT the idiot light. Non-resistor adapters: use WITH idiot light - AC Delco: 8077 - Haywire: 2110 - Painless Wiring: 30707 Resistor adapters: use WITHOUT idiot light - AC Delco: 8078 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 105 AMP CS130 Get a 105 amp alternator for a 1989 Pontiac Safari Wagon 5.0L. This saves you the trouble of having to swap pulleys as the Safari came with a v-groove pulley, not the serpentine. From Advance Auto Parts the part # is Premium P79223. $78 with a $35 core charge. Other options are: (1988-90) Buick Estate Wagon 5.0L (1988-90) Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (RWD) 5.0L (1988-90) Chevrolet Caprice 5.0L (1988-90) Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser 5.0L (1988-89) Pontiac Safari Wagon 5.0L Replaces: Delco 1101229, 1101275, 1101292 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 140 AMP CS144 If you want a bad boy 140 amp CS144 Series, they're used on: (1994-96) Buick Roadmaster 5.7L (1993-96) Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (RWD) 5.7L (1993-96) Chevrolet Caprice 4.3L, 5.7L (1995-96) Chevrolet Impala 5.7L (1992-95) Chevrolet Lumina APV Van 3.8L (1992-95) Oldsmobile Silhouette 3.8L (1992-95) Pontiac Trans Sport 3.8L Replaces: Delco 10479891, 10480201 You'll have to swap pulleys on this model as they came with a six-groove serpentine set-up.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32079
11/24/06 11:16 AM
11/24/06 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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more info: pdf file withthe list of delco part number, amp ratings, series, and clocking: http://www.acdelcotechconnect.com/pdf/tas_alt_clock_cs.pdf More pictures and info on the CS series: http://oljeep.com/gw/alt/Alternator_Theory.html#Section_3 this is good stuff, I'm thinking about going with the cs-144, looks like it has the same dimensions, the 140a version has 40 amps at 1600 or so rpm. Pics to follow. Maybe this should be in the tech archives?
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Von]
#32081
11/24/06 12:46 PM
11/24/06 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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Quote:
Isnt that 40 amps at 1600 alt rpms, not crank rpm's? Basically 40 amps at 500 or so crank rpms assuming a 3 to 1 pulley ratio?
yes, I think so.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32083
11/24/06 01:06 PM
11/24/06 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,336 central New Jersey
dbdartman
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,336
central New Jersey
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Quote:
Maybe this should be in the tech archives?
As soon as this has been all played out, let me know & I'll make sure it's moved there!
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#32085
11/27/06 03:33 PM
11/27/06 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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OK, some updates, I found the pigtail, napa online or at the store, part number EC#101, or ECHEC101, $9.49. Only come with 3 wires, but you only need to hookup the big one and one other, not sure which one, but I'll find out later. As soon as I get some time, I'll swap out the old alte and go for it, maybe later this week...
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32086
11/29/06 10:17 PM
11/29/06 10:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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did some more searching, the local pep boys did not have any cadillac stuff so I tried a 95 chevy impala 95 chevy cavalier Both different, both NO GOOD. So, now I'm in search for the caddy one, called a local parts store, they say they have it, we'll see tomorrow. application for serpentine belt is 1990 cadillac fleetwood broughm, 5.7L TBI, AC delco number 321-381 (or try 10463090) application for v belt is 1990 cadillac fleetwood broughm, 5.0L 4BBL, AC delco number 321-397(or try 334-2351, or 10463106) pic of the serpentine one, the positioning of the mounting holes is what's important here. Blown, is this where your mounting holes are? pic of the v belt one: As said, I'm going to see if they have it tomorrow, and put it in. I have the 8 ga wire, but all I could find was 12 ga fusible link, not 10. I hope the 12 ga fusible link will work, gotta go research fusible link max loads....
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32087
11/29/06 10:43 PM
11/29/06 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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Quote:
gotta go research fusible link max loads....
And I just did, seems like the recommended size drop is 4, so for the 8 ga wire, I 12 ga fusible link is correct. From Mad enterprises:
18ga. Fusible Link protects 14ga. or heavier wired systems 16ga. Fusible Link protects 12ga. or heavier wired systems 14ga. Fusible Link protects 10ga. or heavier wired systems 12ga. Fusible Link protects 8ga. or heavier wired systems
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32088
11/29/06 11:15 PM
11/29/06 11:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
application for v belt is 1990 cadillac fleetwood broughm, 5.0L 4BBL, AC delco number 321-397(or try 334-2351, or 10463106)
Are the numbers for a CS130 or CS144?
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: Von]
#32089
11/30/06 08:13 AM
11/30/06 08:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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numbers are for a cs-130, for the c144, try same year but a seville or other caddy I'm pretty sure.
I hada cs-144 in my hand, they are pretty big, the mounting points and depth are teh same, but it is significantly bigger. Honestly, when you look at the amp vs rpm graphs, the cs130 is all any of us will need unless you are rock climbing at night with 2000w of lights or are winching or welding. EFI guys like myself and blown need 40-60 amps at idle with electric fans and pumps and ECU, etc. The cs130 is around 80a output at idle, plenty of juice. And it is smaller than the stock mopar unit, cleans up the engine compartment a little.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32090
11/30/06 11:44 AM
11/30/06 11:44 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
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I run a 200 amp alternator, it's a Ford application, I think the case looks more "MoPar-ish" than the GM alternators....?
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#32091
11/30/06 01:36 PM
11/30/06 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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Got the alternator, definately looks like the one Blown is using. Unfortunately, it has a 5 rib instead of a 6 rib serpentine belt but that is no big deal as a pulley swap is easy with my impact gun. AC DELCO's website is awesome for parts searching and reference pictures: http://198.208.187.182/internet/InternetMain.jsp Here, based on the AC delco reman number and info fromt he other links regarding clocking and styles are the ones I think we should be looking for: Part******Amp.**Series**RemanNo.*Style? Clock? 321-283***100***CS-130**10497119*A 9 321-303***100***CS-130**10463004*A 9 321-340***85****CS-130**10463046*A 9 321-381***100***CS-130**10463090*A 9 321-397***105***CS-130**10463106*A 9 321-435***85****CS-130**10463144*A 9 321-436***105***CS-130**10463145*A 9 321-1034**105***CS-130**10463414*A 9 321-1036**100***CS-130**10463416*A 9 321-1064**105***CS-130**10463529*A 9 gonna go install it tonite, pictures to come.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32092
11/30/06 09:53 PM
11/30/06 09:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928
A tad North of Indy
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Quote:
Blown, is this where your mounting holes are?
Sorry i`ve been away for a couple of days, Yes that is the same as I run
Rick
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: whiplash]
#32093
11/30/06 10:19 PM
11/30/06 10:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
numbers are for a cs-130, for the c144, try same year but a seville or other caddy I'm pretty sure.
I hada cs-144 in my hand, they are pretty big, the mounting points and depth are teh same, but it is significantly bigger. Honestly, when you look at the amp vs rpm graphs, the cs130 is all any of us will need unless you are rock climbing at night with 2000w of lights or are winching or welding. EFI guys like myself and blown need 40-60 amps at idle with electric fans and pumps and ECU, etc. The cs130 is around 80a output at idle, plenty of juice. And it is smaller than the stock mopar unit, cleans up the engine compartment a little.
Thanks for the numbers. Again great info.
Im gonna need around 60 amps at idle (plus lights) , so I think I'll try one out.
Fans 26 amps Water Pump 10 amps Fuel Pump 10 amps Ignition Box 10 amops Lights ?? amps
I should be good at 80 amps at idle.
Anyway, pics of the your install would be great.
Are you using a stock bracket?
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32094
11/30/06 11:33 PM
11/30/06 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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SUCCESS!!! I was having an issue where the alternator was not charging, had the alt tested and it was good, did some more research onthe net and on this nova site: http://www.novaresource.org/alternator.htm I found this paragraph: Quote:
You need to purchase a conversion adapter that is just 2 short wires and 2 connectors. One is a CS connector to plug into the alternator, the other is a female connector to accept the SI plug from your original harness. There are two different types of conversion adapters. One is a non-resistor and the other has some resistance built-in it. The "L" wire that energizes the alternator needs some resistance (35 ohms or more) in it otherwise it will cause the alternator to fail. If you have a warning light in the dash then that bulb serves as the needed resistance and you should use the non-resistor adapter. If you don't have that bulb or have less than 35 ohms resistance in the "L" wire then you will need the adapter with resistance built in. If the "L" wire has more than 350 ohms then there is a problem with that wire and it will need to be fixed.
even though I measured 220 ohms in the wire as suggested by blown71x and other internet sites, the above information cased me to think, lets try another resistance, so I swapped out the 220 ohm resistor for a 100 ohm resisteor and whala! the alternator charges!!
now, I get 14+vdc at idle, and with all the accessories and the 30 amp electric fans on, I get 13 vdc, charging issues solved...
The only problem I have, and it could be an issue, is that with the 383's, the bottom mounting hole does not line up, so I made a 1.5" extension piece of flat metal to extend the bottom bracket so it does not hit the fan. While it looks hokey and backyard, it works. For the RB motors, looking at the geometry, it looks like this is a direct bolt in, butthe fact that the b blocks have less height in them it changes the geometry just enough where the alternator fan hits the bottom bracket.
When I get a chance I will post some pics of the "modification" and tehn get to work on making a new bottom bracket.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32096
11/30/06 11:56 PM
11/30/06 11:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928 A tad North of Indy
Blown71X
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,928
A tad North of Indy
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Quote:
The only problem I have, and it could be an issue, is that with the 383's, the bottom mounting hole does not line up, so I made a 1.5" extension piece of flat metal to extend the bottom bracket so it does not hit the fan. While it looks hokey and backyard, it works. For the RB motors, looking at the geometry, it looks like this is a direct bolt in, butthe fact that the b blocks have less height in them it changes the geometry just enough where the alternator fan hits the bottom bracket.
This is good to know as I have only delt with this combo on RB`s
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: 70blackfish]
#32097
12/01/06 12:03 AM
12/01/06 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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The alternator was $98.- The pigtail was $9.- resistor $1.50 (radio shack) Fusible link $5.- (10'roll) I had the 8 ga wire, and misc connectors, solder, shrink wrap, etc.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: whiplash]
#32098
12/01/06 09:18 AM
12/01/06 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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pictures: you can see the lower bracket extension piece in the bottom left corner of the pic: closer: the back side, you can see ample clearance for the main charge wire (red)going straight to the battery. over the valve cover you can see the red "sense" wire going to the distribution point on the starter relay and the blue resistor. Last pic, compared to the pic blown 71 posted on the first page, you can see how using the lower of the two mounting points on the top bracket slightly changes the clocking of the alternator, making it neccesssary to do something different with the bottom bracket.
Last edited by whiplash; 12/01/06 09:28 AM.
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Von]
#32100
12/01/06 02:39 PM
12/01/06 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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that's the problem, there isn't one in between the two available positions
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle?
[Re: Von]
#32102
12/01/06 04:51 PM
12/01/06 04:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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yes, a little tricky but yes. stays tight too....
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: jeepers007]
#32104
12/01/06 07:48 PM
12/01/06 07:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 329 N.Y.
VZCharger
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 329
N.Y.
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I used the arm from a GM product when I mounted mine, figure if it was a GM alternator then a GM bracket should work . It had a large curve to it that wrapped around the alternator so I didn't need an extension. I just went to the local speed shop and looked through their catalogs 'till I found one that looked like it could work.
70 Charger blown injected BB
07 Charger Daytona Plum Crazy #389
69 Coronet ragtop
96 Ram "Garlits Edition"
88 Conquest TSi
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: jeepers007]
#32105
12/01/06 08:57 PM
12/01/06 08:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
Maybe one of our resident metal workers could fab up a new arm that takes care of this issue. Should be cheap to do... Doesn't need to be anything fancy.
This thread needs to be saved in the tech section!
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Re: modern alternator swaps for BB, highest amp at idle
[Re: Von]
#32108
12/02/06 09:26 AM
12/02/06 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336 Summit, NJ
whiplash
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,336
Summit, NJ
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I think the 144 housing would fit. The issue would be with the bottom bracket, maybe not on a 440, but a new bracket or a different on would be needed for the 383. Why do you need a 140a alternator anyway?
- 67 coronet 4dr, 383/727/GVOD, blown, EFI, daily driver
- 230/238, 114°LSA cam, 1.6 rollers, 9:1 comp, 8 psi boost
- NEW BEST ET - 12.40@110mph...
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