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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299211
04/25/09 07:52 PM
04/25/09 07:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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If you took out the inner spring or if your spring pressure isn't too high I'd suspect the cam. I wont buy a MP cam(or valves) because of too many personal & purported failures.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299215
04/25/09 07:56 PM
04/25/09 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 160
Florida
hemisurfer
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 160
Florida
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I am running a higher lift Comp Cams solid lifter in my 440 stroker and have had zero issues.
I am happy with Comp Cams, just a suggestion if your looking to switch to a another cam company.
Last edited by hemisurfer; 04/25/09 07:57 PM.
Chris
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: hemigod426]
#299219
04/25/09 08:19 PM
04/25/09 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,343
west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,343
west palm beach, florida
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Quote:
ive done rockwell harness tests on cam cores their ok it was all the newer lifters that are a joke. most cam corps use all the same blanks for cams. all the good lifter corps are gone
If the cam 's hardness is good but the lifters aren't then why does the cam lobe fail and not the lifter?
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299222
04/25/09 08:29 PM
04/25/09 08:29 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i had a mp cam in a dakota with a 5.2l that was professionally installed and broke in. i had mp springs and the other goodies put in with it and it wore off 2 lobes within 2000 miles. i put in a summit cam and have since sold the truck due to the frame rotting out but it has 40000 on the summit cam and runs like a dream. now its someones firewood truck.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299224
04/25/09 08:47 PM
04/25/09 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Quote:
I lubed the lifters on the bottom and sides and made sure they spin looslely.
Do not lube the sides of the lifters with the thick break in paste. The paste is for the lifter face and cam lobes only. If you put it on the sides it can prevent the lifters from spinning enough. Motor oil is all you need on the rest of the lifter and the lifter bores in the block.
There was a problem with bad lifters. Some were soft, some didn't have enough crown, some had the crown ground off center, and some were all of the above. If your lifters have been sitting on a dealers shelf for a few years, there's a good chance you got junk. I would only trust obviously very old lifters or very recent lifters.
Last edited by GomangoCuda; 04/25/09 08:52 PM.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#299225
04/25/09 11:17 PM
04/25/09 11:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Lifter rotation problem. Dirt in the lifter bores/galleys, scoring, wrong lube on lifter walls ( previously stated ). A good test: With the side of the lifters and lifter bores lubed with light oil, they should slide down the lifter bores with only their own weight. If you can't acheive this, you might want to rent a broach and broach the lifter bores - I think hughes rents them.
Fastest 300
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299227
04/26/09 10:41 AM
04/26/09 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Quote:
I have the "hemi" springs rated to .500 lift, so I guess I am slightly weak with the springs. I lubed the lifters on the bottom and sides and made sure they spin looslely. I have a standard valvetrain. Maybe I should upgrade to solid lifters if that helps? Need to get this thing going!
if those springs are set up for 1.88 installed heigth they will coil bind before .509 lift. those springs are obsolete.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: RapidRobert]
#299229
04/26/09 11:23 AM
04/26/09 11:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,327
Glendale, AZ
69L78Nova
Banned. Forever.
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Banned. Forever.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,327
Glendale, AZ
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My MP509 just went flat as well, in addition to 4 lifters being collapsed
1969 Nova
454/M21/3.31
Mild mid-11 second weekend cruiser
1994 F150 XLT Super Cab 2WD
5.0/4R70W/3.55
(Daily driver)
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299230
04/26/09 11:52 AM
04/26/09 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,043
Slidell, La.
doctor_mopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,043
Slidell, La.
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Are you following proper break in procedure by getting the engine up to enough RPM right away for breakin of the cam?
------------------------ It doesn't matter what you do.........As long as you look good doing it !
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299231
04/26/09 12:27 PM
04/26/09 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
I have the "hemi" springs rated to .500 lift, so I guess I am slightly weak with the springs. I lubed the lifters on the bottom and sides and made sure they spin looslely. I have a standard valvetrain. Maybe I should upgrade to solid lifters if that helps? Need to get this thing going!
well, springs rated to 500 lift but trying to use them with a 509 cam ain't going to work well unless you are real lucky. Spring goes to coil bind and is solid - something has to give. with luck it will be a push rod bending.
Springs should have at least (preferably more) .060 more travel than the valve lift. Same with clearance from the retainer to the guide/seal clearance. To avoid possible further problems the entire engine should be torn down and flushed and cleaned to get the filings that are all through the engine out.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
#299233
04/26/09 01:36 PM
04/26/09 01:36 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I wouldn't put a mopar cam in my motor if you gave it to me for free!!!,,i;ve had very good luck with Lunati cams for a few years now,no problem breaking them in either..then again we don't break them in like everyone else,thats probably why they live... 
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: RapidRobert]
#299234
04/26/09 01:46 PM
04/26/09 01:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Don't think you have a coil bind problem or you would have more than one lifter problem - and other broken / bent stuff.
Fastest 300
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
#299235
04/26/09 01:50 PM
04/26/09 01:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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When I ran into a core shifted cam from RB I found out that only 2 vendors provided cam cores, Engine Power and Crane. I also found out if you bought a shelf grind from Comp you got the Crane core, but if you bought a custom grind you got the EP core. Apparently the problems are/were with the Crane cores. I don't know where the Purple cams come from, but in this day and age there are cams better suited to individual combos than the Mopar grinds.
I tried to find the lengthy thread I had posted dealing with this issue but apparently it's purged from the system. The extensive picture file I have is locked up in a crashed hard drive. Anybody installing a cam should look for core shift issues. The problem is that the lobes don't line up under the lifters correctly. This prevents the lifters from spinning and/or quickly wears off the taper on the lobes. More than likely, this isn't the issue here, but it could be. Unless you know what to look for when installing the cam, the diagnosis would be attributed to wrong oil, lifter rotation, spring pressure etc.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: Crizila]
#299237
04/26/09 04:25 PM
04/26/09 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Don't think you have a coil bind problem or you would have more than one lifter problem - and other broken / bent stuff.
Maybe - maybe not. Says a different lobe each time. 
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: Classof70Chally]
#299238
04/26/09 04:43 PM
04/26/09 04:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Been there, done that. Time for a roller. 
Now THAT sounds like the ticket ...but ...
How about the reports about the rollers coming apart OR the guide-bars falling off ? ...I have not heard of ANY fail-safe upgrade here.
Anyone see that new Comp Cams new process on the lobes of a regular non-roller cam ?
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: dOc !]
#299239
04/26/09 06:19 PM
04/26/09 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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It seems like alot of people have problems with the purpleshafts nowadays. I know someone who wasted one of the revised 484 grinds on break in, but he bought another one and recently switched to the revised 509 and didnt have problems with those.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: 85_Ram_4speed]
#299240
04/26/09 06:28 PM
04/26/09 06:28 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
..then again we don't break them in like everyone else,thats probably why they live...
So care to share how you do it, it is it some big trade secret? 
Ya' we put the cam in,fire the car up set the timing and idle check oil pressure and temp..take the car for a blast,come back change oil and filter..We don't start it let it sit there running at 2500 rpms for a certain time,always get a kick out of that..oh and we NEVER had cam failure with this procedure can't say the same for the method everyone else thinks your suppose to use
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
#299242
04/26/09 08:21 PM
04/26/09 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,607
Lapeer, MI.
todd440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,607
Lapeer, MI.
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Ya' we put the cam in,fire the car up set the timing and idle check oil pressure and temp..take the car for a blast,come back change oil and filter..We don't start it let it sit there running at 2500 rpms for a certain time,always get a kick out of that..oh and we NEVER had cam failure with this procedure can't say the same for the method everyone else thinks your suppose to use
 Yes, I'm with him. I never break in a cam at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes. Make sure it's timed, prefill the carb, start and run at maybe 1400, bliping the gas now and then for 4-5 minutes. Slight cool down, and repeat. I've never wiped a cam.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: modelmakerinc]
#299243
04/26/09 08:44 PM
04/26/09 08:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Quote:
ive done rockwell harness tests on cam cores their ok it was all the newer lifters that are a joke. most cam corps use all the same blanks for cams. all the good lifter corps are gone
If the cam 's hardness is good but the lifters aren't then why does the cam lobe fail and not the lifter?
The cam and lifters need to be hard to prevent excessive wear, but the lifter has to be harder than the cam. The lifter has to be harder because it has load on one contact point all the time, where as the cams contact loaded point is spread all around the cams lobe.
Once the smooth contact surfaces are gone for different reasons (low zinc/pho, soft lobes, soft lifters, stuck lifters, improper break in, etc), friction increases and wear starts. That's when the harder lifter will rapidly take out the cam lobe.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: B5 Bee]
#299244
04/26/09 08:55 PM
04/26/09 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
The lifter has to be harder because it has load on one contact point all the time, where as the cams contact loaded point is spread all around the cams lobe.
The cam lob has a slight taper and the lifter has a slight 'dome'. The lifter does not contact the full face of the lifter or vice versa. The lifter also is supposed to spin as th cam shaft rotates so that the contact patch is not constant. If the lifter does not spin in the bore the cam and lifter will be destroyed in very short order.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: MoparforLife]
#299245
04/26/09 09:05 PM
04/26/09 09:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
B5 Bee
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020
Pangaea
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Quote:
Quote:
The lifter has to be harder because it has load on one contact point all the time, where as the cams contact loaded point is spread all around the cams lobe.
The cam lob has a slight taper and the lifter has a slight 'dome'. The lifter does not contact the full face of the lifter or vice versa. The lifter also is supposed to spin as th cam shaft rotates so that the contact patch is not constant. If the lifter does not spin in the bore the cam and lifter will be destroyed in very short order.
The point I was making is the load is focused on one small area on the lifter but spread out all over the lobe. Sure the lifter spins which helps to spread the load, but it is still a concentrated area compared to the lobe.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: MoparforLife]
#299247
04/26/09 09:51 PM
04/26/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
Robbins
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
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How much lifter rotation is there in say spinning the motor over one revolution?
I mean say you mark the lifter and the bore....and you turn the motor over one revolution....how far should the lifter turn from the mark on the block?
Moparlee
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: rusthole]
#299248
04/26/09 10:18 PM
04/26/09 10:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
I was able to find the lifter from the wasted lobe and looked more closely at it. It looks like the scarring is all in one direction- like it never rotated.
I will change to another brand with a lift no more than .500 and clean up my lifter bores. No cam lube on the sides!
So have you pulled the motor down after losing 2 cams?
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: Von]
#299249
04/26/09 10:23 PM
04/26/09 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
I was able to find the lifter from the wasted lobe and looked more closely at it. It looks like the scarring is all in one direction- like it never rotated.
I will change to another brand with a lift no more than .500 and clean up my lifter bores. No cam lube on the sides!
So have you pulled the motor down after losing 2 cams?
OR ...at least drop the engine oil pan. THEN put a magnet in there to collect the rest of the "trash".
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: dOc !]
#299250
04/26/09 10:44 PM
04/26/09 10:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I was able to find the lifter from the wasted lobe and looked more closely at it. It looks like the scarring is all in one direction- like it never rotated.
I will change to another brand with a lift no more than .500 and clean up my lifter bores. No cam lube on the sides!
So have you pulled the motor down after losing 2 cams?
OR ...at least drop the engine oil pan. THEN put a magnet in there to collect the rest of the "trash".
A bunch of the metal is up in the skirts by now...
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: Robbins]
#299251
04/27/09 11:36 AM
04/27/09 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
How much lifter rotation is there in say spinning the motor over one revolution?
I mean say you mark the lifter and the bore....and you turn the motor over one revolution....how far should the lifter turn from the mark on the block?
not much , but the lifter should rotate close to a 1/4 turn , it doesn't rotate till it goes over the nose of the lifter lobe . I usually mark all lifters and all pushrods and rotate the crank untill I have seen 1 full revoution of all the lifters and pushrods .
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Re: lost cam lobe on break in twice
[Re: 64Post]
#299252
04/27/09 11:37 AM
04/27/09 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I was able to find the lifter from the wasted lobe and looked more closely at it. It looks like the scarring is all in one direction- like it never rotated.
I will change to another brand with a lift no more than .500 and clean up my lifter bores. No cam lube on the sides!
So have you pulled the motor down after losing 2 cams?
OR ...at least drop the engine oil pan. THEN put a magnet in there to collect the rest of the "trash".
A bunch of the metal is up in the skirts by now...
Never mind how trashed the oil pump is .
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