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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: Kudakidd]
#289071
04/15/09 02:50 PM
04/15/09 02:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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needed all the time(w flat tappet cams)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: imfixinmopars426]
#289076
04/16/09 09:57 AM
04/16/09 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Stock or mild builds with flat tappet cams like at least 1200 ppm zinc. Major builds more, due to stronger valve springs etc. I run 5W40 Shell Rotella T full synthetic which has close to 1400 ppm zinc. Most, if not all, heavy duty (diesel) motor oils have a good amount of zinc. Racing oils too, but may not be suitable for every day cruising. www.bobistheoilguy.com has tons of info.
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: Junky]
#289077
04/16/09 04:09 PM
04/16/09 04:09 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I had same issue, started using Brad Penn 20/50 in a mildly built 440.
Estimated 1500 ppm zinc and 1450 phosporus content. Did extensive research awhile back and found this to work for me. I was able to purchase from a local supplier.
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
#289078
04/16/09 04:37 PM
04/16/09 04:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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FWIW Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil has 1960ppm of Zinc and 1800ppm of phosporous. Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic is almost identical at 2000/1800
I haven't researched every oil available, but I've seen nothing higher than these two.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: DPelletier]
#289079
04/16/09 05:58 PM
04/16/09 05:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 614
ont,canada
mopartuner
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 614
ont,canada
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What kind of store do you buy this type of oil at?
410 pump gas solis flat tappet cam 10.95 so far
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: mopartuner]
#289081
04/16/09 06:17 PM
04/16/09 06:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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Here's a response from Castrol i got.
Thank you for contacting Castrol,
The latest API SM/ILSAC GF-4 category calls for reduced Zinc and Phosphorus
levels to allow extended catalyst life in current model vehicles. There
appear to be field issues associated with the SM/GF-4 oil's level of
antiwear in the classic car engines known as flat tappet cam engines. The
current late model passenger car engines are not flat tappet cam engines and
have no reported field issues related to the level of antiwear chemistry in
the SM/GF-4 oils.
Product Recommendations for Flat Tappet (Solid Lifter) Cam Engines:
Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (min Zn = 0.10 wt % = 1000 ppm)(full synthetic)
Castrol Syntec 20W-50 (Recent reformulation identified by "Recommended for
Classic Cars" text on back label) (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)(full synthetic)
PREFERRED
Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60 (BMW dealerships) (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000
ppm)(full synthetic)
BMW Long Life 5W-30 (BMW dealerships)(min Zn = 0.095 = 950 ppm)(full
synthetic)
New Motorcycle Products, Expected to be Available Q2 2008:
Castrol 4T 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 wt % = 1000 ppm)
Castrol Actevo X-Tra 10W-30, 10W-40, 20W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000
ppm)
Castrol Actevo X-Tra Offroad 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000 ppm)
Castrol Power RS GPS 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)
PREFERED
Castrol Power RS R4 10W-50 and 5W-40 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm) PREFERED
Castrol Power RS V-Twin 20W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)
PREFERED
Existing Motorcycle Products, Will Be Transitioning Out:
Castrol Grand Prix 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil 10W-40, 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.10 wt
% = 1000 ppm)
Castrol GO! 10W-40, 20W-50 Motorcycle Oil (min Zn = 0.10 = 1000 ppm)
Castrol Consumer Relations
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: MNobody]
#289082
04/16/09 06:19 PM
04/16/09 06:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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And here's one from Shell...I'm running Rotella 15-40 in mine. With the introduction a couple of years ago of ILSAC specification GF-4 and API specification SM for gasoline-only engine oils, the amount of phosphorous in the oil had to be reduced to prolong the life of catalytic converters. Zinc-based anti-wear compounds, which also contain phosphorous, were reduced as well. These zinc compounds work well to protect flat tappet engines from excessive wear, so the modern gasoline-only engine oils are not as effective in this regard as they once were. Diesel engine oils don't suffer from the same requirements to protect catalytic converters, so the amount of zinc-based anti-wear additives remained high. Products like Shell Rotella T Oils, which also carry API S-series licenses for gasoline engines, have found favor for flat tappet engines. There has been a recent change to the API specification required for oils used in 2007 big rig diesel engines to reduce particulate emissions, API CJ-4. As a result, the zinc content in Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oils has been reduced slightly from about 1400 ppm to about 1200 ppm. Even at these slightly decreased levels, Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oils still have at least 50% more of these anti-wear additives as most current gasoline-only engine oils. These levels of zinc have historically offered good protection in flat tappet applications. Regards, Edward Calcote http://www.shell.com/us/lubricants/
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: MNobody]
#289083
04/16/09 06:21 PM
04/16/09 06:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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Here's one from Kendall too..
Kendallฎ GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil is a high-quality
engine oil specially designed for use in gasoline-fueled vehicles
operating under high-temperature or severe driving conditions,
such as towing heavy loads, as well as in competition engines
and high-performance street engines.
GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil is formulated to provide
excellent wear protection, to minimize the formation of sludge
and varnish, and to resist viscosity and thermal breakdown, even
in severe service. It also protects against rust and bearing
corrosion, and has good foam resistance. The SAE 20W-50
viscosity grade is fortified with additional zinc
dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) additive to provide enhanced
wear protection and oxidation resistance for use in the most
demanding applications. It is particularly recommended for use in
turbocharged engines and in high-performance engines with
flat-tappet camshafts, especially during the critical break-in
period.
Applications
Gasoline-fueled passenger cars, light trucks and sport utility
vehicles that do not require an ILSAC GF-4 oil for warranty
coverage
Competition engines and high-performance street engines
Nitromethane-fueled drag racing vehicles (Nitro 70 grade)
Gasoline engines where monograde engine oil is
recommended
GT-1 High Performance Motor Oil meets or exceeds the
requirements of:
API Service SM, SL (all grades except SAE 50 & Nitro 70)
Features/Benefits
Excellent resistance to viscosity and thermal breakdown at
high temperatures
Protects against sludge and varnish formation
Excellent wear protection
Protects against rust and bearing corrosion
Good foam resistance
Formulated for engines equipped with turbochargers or
superchargers
Enhanced wear protection for engines with flat-tappet
camshafts (SAE 20W-50)
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: DPelletier]
#289084
04/16/09 07:20 PM
04/16/09 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
FWIW Pennzoil 25W-50 Racing Oil has 1960ppm of Zinc and 1800ppm of phosporous. Quaker State Q Racing Synthetic is almost identical at 2000/1800
I haven't researched every oil available, but I've seen nothing higher than these two.
Dave
Dave,are those numbers from actual oil analysis or advertised figures ?
I had an analysis done on the Brad Penn,here are the numbers.
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: 70rrclone]
#289087
04/16/09 09:30 PM
04/16/09 09:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
i hear that zinc has been removed from oil now.
do i need to swap to an oil with zinc or is zinc primarily needed for break in
thanks shane
After break-in, run one of these and dont worry about additives.
AMSOIL Dominatorฎ Synthetic 10W-30 or 15W-50 Racing Oil
Zinc content 1676 ppm
Phosphorus content 1509 ppm
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: 05dakota]
#289090
04/16/09 11:30 PM
04/16/09 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
I go fast
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
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Quote:
so the solution is oil thats $10.75 a qrt?
If you're an oil salesman! 
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: 05dakota]
#289091
04/16/09 11:42 PM
04/16/09 11:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
so the solution is oil thats $10.75 a qrt?
Not exactly. It doesnt have to be that costly.
That same oil is $8.30 per quart with the Amsoil Preferred Customer membership. Or a less costly alternative could be Synthetic SAE 10W-30/SAE 30 Heavy-Duty Motor Oil (ACD) . The ACD works out to $5.97 per quart Preferred Customer cost.
ACD 10W-30:
Zinc content 1339ppm
Phosphorus content 1180ppm
Around the 1200ppm mark for Zinc and Phos., is considered to be adequate for flat-tappets.
Also, consider the cost of a quality alternative motor oil plus the cost of an aftermarket additive. The two added together is getting up there in price. In the end whats the difference in price, $10-$12? And if you go that rout, youre not guaranteed 100% compatibility of the motor oil additive package to the aftermarket additive. For example are you going to end up with oil foaming tendencies by using a motor oil and aftermarket additive? That's happened.
One oil product, one cost, no worries
Some like to go that rout, but not all.
CompSyn
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: Junky]
#289092
04/17/09 10:20 AM
04/17/09 10:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
Junky
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Quote:
Stock or mild builds with flat tappet cams like at least 1200 ppm zinc. Major builds more, due to stronger valve springs etc.
I run 5W40 Shell Rotella T full synthetic which has close to 1400 ppm zinc. Most, if not all, heavy duty (diesel) motor oils have a good amount of zinc. Racing oils too, but may not be suitable for every day cruising. www.bobistheoilguy.com has tons of info.
I read on Bob Is The Oil Guy's web site a used oil analysis stating that the new CJ4 Shell Rotella T (SRT) 5W40 full synthetic at about 1380 ppm zinc. Last night I emailed Shell's tech, who responded back that their newest CJ4 SRT 5W40 has 1200 ppm zinc. 
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: Junky]
#289093
04/17/09 11:18 AM
04/17/09 11:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,871
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,871
Oregon
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Chevron Delo 30wt has ~1200ppm zinc according to their datasheet for it. Here it costs me $13/gallon.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: I go fast]
#289096
04/17/09 01:03 PM
04/17/09 01:03 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I totally agree with the comments about buyer beware. Back when all the SM oils came out, I contacted many of the oil mfgs and was told SM was fine for flat tappet engines. Now we now better. Even after the issues came up, when I contacted Amsoil, they wouldn't tell me how much zinc was in their oil, but it was enough. I had two pushrod failures on Amsoil diesel oil back then, change oil to another brand and no more problems. I like to run the motorcycle oils, as they have all the additives you need, without the extra stuff in diesel oils that you don't need. I like this in 5W40 for drivers and our motorhome and in the 20W50 for the TT340 Chally. http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9021703&contentId=7040544
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#289099
04/17/09 09:32 PM
04/17/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Just found a bottle of Lucus additive at Advance for $12. It has zink and some other stuff in it "specially formulated for engines using flat tappet cams" It's a break in lube + additive.
Is it Lucas Oil Stabilizer or another product. Just curious. Below is some information on Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
Click HERE for thread on Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
Click HERE for a look at bench test with Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
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Re: oil questions/ zinc......
[Re: CompSyn]
#289100
04/18/09 01:39 PM
04/18/09 01:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,076
Renton, Wa.
Classof70Chally
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,076
Renton, Wa.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just found a bottle of Lucus additive at Advance for $12. It has zink and some other stuff in it "specially formulated for engines using flat tappet cams" It's a break in lube + additive.
Click HERE for thread on Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
Click HERE for a look at bench test with Lucas Oil Stabilizer.
They have two different products. One is an oil stabilizer/smoke reducer similar to 'motor honey'/stp, etc. The other is a zddp additive and motor/cam break-in product. It comes in a 16oz bottle and states that it is not to be used in 1994 or newer cars as it will trash the convertors. I used a bottle to break-in my recent 440 bullet in my sig car and just picked up another for an oil change. 
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Any information on ZDDP content can change overnight.
