Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
#279750
04/06/09 07:29 PM
04/06/09 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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I have always struggled with tuning my carb and was thinking a wide band air/fuel meter might help me out a bit? I am thinking either the LM-1 or the FAST with (1) sensor. I want to keep the cost down and figure I can weld an extra bung on the other side and swap the sensor if needed. Can anyone recommend one over the other? I read the LM-1 info can be downloaded onto a computer which sounds like a nice feature.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279751
04/06/09 07:37 PM
04/06/09 07:37 PM
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Anonymous
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i personally would get the altronics O2 alert, you have provisions to hook up 2 oxygen sensors to it if desired, completely programmable and you also get rpm's and voltage as well as provisions for vacuum sensors.
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Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
#279752
04/06/09 07:40 PM
04/06/09 07:40 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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its by far the best item i have ever bought for my car, it took the guesswork out of tuning and you can tune for max. hp with it. and tune for all 4 seasons.
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
#279753
04/06/09 07:44 PM
04/06/09 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Thanks for the info...I'll check it out.
I also noticed Innovate has an LM-2 which looks a little newer. Anyone using it?
I don't have a cig lighter in the Cuda. Would I have to add one or could I hard wire it into a switched hot lead?
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279754
04/06/09 08:14 PM
04/06/09 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Triple Threat
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You should also look into the LC-1 same thing as the LM-1 but its a gauge so it cab be mounted. We own an LM1 and it is bulky and kind of a hassle at times.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Triple Threat]
#279755
04/06/09 08:18 PM
04/06/09 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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I just talked to an Innovate distributor out in CA. He is an ex-employee and seemed very knowledgeable. The LM-2 sounds like it can do everything I want and more. He also commented that it is less bulky than the LM-1, plug connections are better, data can be saved to an SD card... Sounded pretty nice to me.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279756
04/06/09 10:49 PM
04/06/09 10:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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tywebb2
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On second thought. I have been reading the LM-2 forun on Innovate's website and the reviews are less than positive. Now I think I will go with either the LM-1 or the LC-1. I just want something that works without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't really need. Stay tuned (no pun intended).
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279757
04/06/09 11:13 PM
04/06/09 11:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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aarcuda
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Quote:
On second thought. I have been reading the LM-2 forun on Innovate's website and the reviews are less than positive. Now I think I will go with either the LM-1 or the LC-1. I just want something that works without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't really need. Stay tuned (no pun intended).
people with the LM2 are less than pleased. too many bugs.
I really like the idea of GTech Pro EGS its a tach with an o2 sensor built in (for additional cost) http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: dthemi]
#279759
04/06/09 11:47 PM
04/06/09 11:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Quote:
I use the dual FAST, but it's big clunky feeling and looking. It does record so maybe if it were mounted it would be better. I saw a neat tach at SEMA though, that had it built in with playack for several sensors. i can't remember the name but it was something like Qtach, or something. I'll look and see if i can find it. It would graph A/F against rpm, and that would be most helpful. My FAST unit won't sync with my MSD 10 box so I can't follow it by RPM, so I count down from the time slip.
was it the GTech Pro EGS http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
the only thing i dont like about it is that you cant download the info to a computer
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: dthemi]
#279760
04/06/09 11:49 PM
04/06/09 11:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 248 Jarrettsville, MD
cudaman1967
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Use www.zeitronix.com. Talk to Marc. They were voted number one at SEMA show in 2008. Tell Marc that Mike Mills told you to call he will offer you a deal you cant turn down. Plus your right down the street so we can compare data and I can help you with it if needed
Cudaman1967
1967 Barracuda Turbo Outlaw 8.50
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: aarcuda]
#279761
04/06/09 11:55 PM
04/06/09 11:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia
dthemi
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Quote:
Quote:
I use the dual FAST, but it's big clunky feeling and looking. It does record so maybe if it were mounted it would be better. I saw a neat tach at SEMA though, that had it built in with playack for several sensors. i can't remember the name but it was something like Qtach, or something. I'll look and see if i can find it. It would graph A/F against rpm, and that would be most helpful. My FAST unit won't sync with my MSD 10 box so I can't follow it by RPM, so I count down from the time slip.
was it the GTech Pro EGS http://www.gtechpro.com/egs.html
the only thing i dont like about it is that you cant download the info to a computer
Yeah that's the one,, check out all the functions. I like gadgets, and I only played with it at SEMA, so it may be great, or junk I don't know. It did feel like quality, but who knows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAWFIZmUekM
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#279764
04/07/09 09:20 AM
04/07/09 09:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Quote:
I have a FAST and a LM1 with the RPM module, I have had troubles with both systems. I did upgrade the LM1 to the LC1 to get dual readings off of both sides of the motor on the same session, I haven't installed that portion yet, shame on me I like the LM1 better, it is way easier to read once you download the session onto a laptop
ive had some problems with the LM-1. This was an older unit purchased off Ebay and im borrowing it. It doesnt read RPMs correctly with rpm converter. its connected to the tach output on my mallory hyfire box with my tach and the tach reads right.
Lst weekend at the track, i was logging data during the runs and a few times it disconnected itself in the middle of the run so i got nothing i could use.
My idle mixture is also VERY noisy looking with big dramatic changes in afr. that may be a grounding problem. I want to hard wire the power and ground into the fuese box instead of using the cig lighter (might work better)
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#279766
04/07/09 06:21 PM
04/07/09 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Now I am really confused. The GTechPro tach set-up looks really nice but it is expensive when you figure the cost of the gauge and the adder for the o2 sensor. Plus it don't have the ability to download info to a laptop.
I called Zeitronix and they were very nice but their unit doesn't store and offer the ability to download onto a laptop later either. Is this something I really need?
I called Innovate to ask about the XD-16 Kit and while they did answer my questions, they seemed to have a chip on their shoulder.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279768
04/07/09 09:42 PM
04/07/09 09:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 248 Jarrettsville, MD
cudaman1967
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You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger and they have the guage for real time or the LCD (which I got with it) that you can recall highest reading and look at while you are driving. Its awesome! The problem with the LM1 which is a very good box has always been ground issues and the rpm being accurate. Not to mention it costs a boat load to get all the sensors you may want. I am recording fuel pressure, Wideband O2, boost, rpm, intake temp (used for water/meth spray) I can email you the directions if you want. Shows you how to datalog
Cudaman1967
1967 Barracuda Turbo Outlaw 8.50
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: cudaman1967]
#279769
04/07/09 10:55 PM
04/07/09 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Cudaman1967...I sent you a p/m earlier tonight...check it out.
If you can p/m or email me those directions that would be great. Do you actually have to have a laptop in the car and connected to the ZT2 to data log or can you make your pass and connect the laptop once you get back in the pits between rounds?
After researching multiple forums and sites tonight I think I am leaning toward the Zeitronix piece.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279770
04/08/09 07:52 AM
04/08/09 07:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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aarcuda
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Quote:
Cudaman1967...I sent you a p/m earlier tonight...check it out.
If you can p/m or email me those directions that would be great. Do you actually have to have a laptop in the car and connected to the ZT2 to data log or can you make your pass and connect the laptop once you get back in the pits between rounds?
After researching multiple forums and sites tonight I think I am leaning toward the Zeitronix piece.
im interested in this too
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: aarcuda]
#279771
04/08/09 10:43 AM
04/08/09 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 248 Jarrettsville, MD
cudaman1967
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aarcuda,
Mention Mike Mills and Marc will take care of you
Cudaman1967
1967 Barracuda Turbo Outlaw 8.50
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: cudaman1967]
#279772
04/08/09 01:23 PM
04/08/09 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Mike,
What deal did you get? I spoke with Marc and mentioned your name and he quoted me list price?
Thanks, Warren
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279773
04/08/09 08:50 PM
04/08/09 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 248 Jarrettsville, MD
cudaman1967
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They are one of my sponsors. So my price will be different than yours. PM me the price they gave you and I can tell you what they gave you off the package...
Cudaman1967
1967 Barracuda Turbo Outlaw 8.50
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: cudaman1967]
#279774
04/09/09 07:19 PM
04/09/09 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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tywebb2
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Well I bit the bullet and ordered the Zeitronix Zt2 with the Zr2 multi gauge today. Got it from a distributor in Minnesota. They beat the price I got direct from Zeitronix and had it in stock to ship today so I should have it next week. I can't wait to get the thing installed and start tuning.
So I guess the answer to my question of LM-1 or FAST is actually Zeitronix. Thanks for the direction on this one Cudaman1967.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#279776
04/10/09 12:33 PM
04/10/09 12:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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tywebb2
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I went with Modern Auto Performance (www.maperformance.com). They had it in stock and it shipped same day.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: tywebb2]
#279777
04/10/09 09:58 PM
04/10/09 09:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
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juicedcuda
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I prefer the PLX wideband. It is a guage and they don't burn up nearly as bad as the innovates do. Racegas seems to take its toll on the innovates.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: cudaman1967]
#279780
04/11/09 09:07 AM
04/11/09 09:07 AM
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440Jim
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Quote:
You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger
So you don't need a laptop computer in the car to record? Just to download the file?
I have been using my LM-1 for years, and I have had no problems. From the forums, they do need some attention to wiring hook-up. I have a hardwire with inline fuse rather than using the cig socket. A proper ground too.
Everyone should realize that AFR will vary with rpm, so a recording of that is the best way to tune. So I like to study the graph after a run. It would be nice to have a realtime gauge for driving around and rough tuning too. For street tuning, a throttle position sensor would be helpful.
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Re: Innovate LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: 440Jim]
#279781
04/11/09 10:36 AM
04/11/09 10:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Quote:
You can record up to 9 hrs of data. Not sure what Marc may have been refering too. But the ZT-2 box is a datalogger
So you don't need a laptop computer in the car to record? Just to download the file?
I have been using my LM-1 for years, and I have had no problems. From the forums, they do need some attention to wiring hook-up. I have a hardwire with inline fuse rather than using the cig socket. A proper ground too.
Everyone should realize that AFR will vary with rpm, so a recording of that is the best way to tune. So I like to study the graph after a run. It would be nice to have a realtime gauge for driving around and rough tuning too. For street tuning, a throttle position sensor would be helpful.
what size fuse did you use? I just hard wired my lm1 in after finding out how loose my cigaratte socket was (the ground was intermittant and was messing with the voltage to the unit).
right now, i am straight to the accessory feed on the fuse block but i want to put a fuse in there for protection.
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Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Defbob]
#279782
04/11/09 10:52 AM
04/11/09 10:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
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Quote:
why not get a lean/rich gauge and single wire O2 sensor? Tom used one to setup his blower motor and I used one to tune my Dominator.
They work ok for simple tuning at idle and such...but they have limitations. Slower to react....and you cannot datalog and graph along with RPM throught the run to evaluate your complete fuel curve. Even a wideband isn't all that useful in my opinion without the RPM info to coinside with it.
All my wideband use has been on my brothers chassis dyno though...but now that he's renting dyno time again...I would like my own wideband setup.
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Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#279783
04/11/09 11:06 AM
04/11/09 11:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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11secdart
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I have the FAST system, You don`t need a laptop to replay the run and get readings.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: Innovative LM-1 vs. FAST...which one to buy?
[Re: 11secdart]
#279784
04/11/09 09:33 PM
04/11/09 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Zeitronix told me you need to have a laptop hooked up to the Zt2 if you want to datalog. There is also some extra software you can buy to load onto a pda (i.e. Palm III, etc.) and you can use that instead. I am probably going to pick up an older pda cheap and use that to log my runs at the track.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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