/6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
#265506
03/24/09 09:06 PM
03/24/09 09:06 PM
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RangerDan440
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I'm swapping in a stock 96 360 Magnum into my 68 Valiant and want to make sure I have everything before I start, so can you all please double check my list?
-Schumacher /6-V8 mounts -LA-style timing cover and water pump -LA-style distributor w/MP ignition -LA-style pulleys, brackets and fan -V8 carb linkage
And a couple of questions: -can I use the Magnum exhaust manifolds from a truck? -when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup? -since Im changing the timing cover, Im assuming I need to change the cam to an earlier LA-style (with fuel pump drive) -I have a new M1 intake-is that too much with a 340-ish cam even if I use a small 650 carb? If so, what other intakes are out there for the Magnum heads? -the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same? -the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
68 Valiant 408 69 Charger 318 69 Cougar 351W 70 Torino GT 351C 71 Country Squire 351W 71 Road Runner 440+6 71 Satellite sedan 318 73 Duster 318 73 Challenger 383 77 Grand Prix 455 83 Malibu 9C1 383 84 Delta 88 403 87 Grand National 96 Ram 360 09 Crown Vic 10 Challenger R/T M6 15 Challenger Hellcat M6
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265507
03/24/09 10:28 PM
03/24/09 10:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,065 Milwaukee, WI
In_The_Pink
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master
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Quote:
I'm swapping in a stock 96 360 Magnum into my 68 Valiant and want to make sure I have everything before I start, so can you all please double check my list?
-Schumacher /6-V8 mounts -LA-style timing cover and water pump -LA-style distributor w/MP ignition -LA-style pulleys, brackets and fan -V8 carb linkage
Are the /6 and V-8 wiring harnesses the same for your Valiant? I ran into that issue during my Aspen /6--> 360 swap.
Air cleaner assembly?
Radiator?
Raditaor hoses, especially the upper hose?
Fan spacer of the correct length?
Fan shroud?
Quote:
-when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup?
Yes
Quote:
--the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same? -the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
You use a flexplate with an automatic, as flywheels are for manual transmissions. No clue as to which one you'll need, sorry.
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265509
03/24/09 10:54 PM
03/24/09 10:54 PM
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sharpie
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As for your questions: Quote:
And a couple of questions: -can I use the Magnum exhaust manifolds from a truck? -when I go to the car oil pan, do I need to use a center sump pickup? -since Im changing the timing cover, Im assuming I need to change the cam to an earlier LA-style (with fuel pump drive) -I have a new M1 intake-is that too much with a 340-ish cam even if I use a small 650 carb? If so, what other intakes are out there for the Magnum heads? -the /6 has a 904 trans and Im just going to use a V8 A904-Im assuming that other than the bellhousing, theyre the same? -the Magnum engines are externally balanced(?); do I need a counterbalanced flywheel?
1. The magnum exhaust manifolds only fit in an early A. 2. Just buy the 360 center-sump pan/pickup combo from MP 3. The cam needs to be a Magnum roller cam with a long snout ordered on a core. I got a Hughes HER1804ALN As an alternative, you can use a stock cam, and get Hughes' bolt kit and a MP fuel pump eccentric to attach to the end of it. 4. If it's the M1 single-plane, then it might be too much for a stockish cam. Edelbrock and Performance Products make a dual-plane, as does MP, but the problem with the PP one is bad runner alignment. The cheapest Edelbrock is at Hughes, $245.95 5. The transmissions are the same from trucks to A-bodies, but I don't know about vans. You'll have the balancer from a Magnum which is offset, so the easiest way to do it is to get a 5.9 Magnum flexplate and a neutrally-balanced torque converter (318 torque converters are neutral)
Hope this helps.
Last edited by sharpie; 03/24/09 10:58 PM.
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265511
03/25/09 08:23 AM
03/25/09 08:23 AM
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mphsmitch
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I am using the pro products intake on the 96 magnum that I have and I was lucky enough to have a buddy here on moparts find me a create motor cam from a member here and its perfect for my application.
90 Dakota 408 CID R/T heads 727 trans 9.5 converter 8.8 rear Pro 275/60 drag radials [email]11.09 @120mph[/email] N/A
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: hillsidehemi]
#265514
03/25/09 09:37 AM
03/25/09 09:37 AM
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Joined: May 2004
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Wedgeman
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HI, there is a tread that covers these swap right now, from IMGTX....
You will need an extension for the fuel pump arm,. I think Mancini sells those...
Stock manifold won't fit, It will hit the steering column, you need to get LA style A-body headers to clear every thing. Yes the 904 bolts right on, keep the magnum flexplate and use the 904 torque, but make sure to upgrade your tranny and put a deep oilpan, otherwise it will not hold..
Use the oil pan fron a pass car V8 for the engine..
I'm doing this swp right now in my 67 Battacuda Daniel
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: Wedgeman]
#265515
03/25/09 03:02 PM
03/25/09 03:02 PM
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RangerDan440
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thanks guys, I scrolled through the Q&A and best of for awhile looking for Magnum installs and couldnt find anything so I may archive this. Sharpie, please pass along as much as possible and we'll archive it as well.
Anyway, Im doing this with as much leftover parts as possible from the 408 build I did for my truck, I dont want to buy any major parts and I have a complete 360 Magnum leftover. I already have a car oil pan (no pickup though, but easy enough to get)
Id like to try and make the exhaust manifolds work without having to buy headers-can they be notched or something? Do they hit the steering box or m/c? (its a manual brake/manual steering car)
I already have the M1 intake; not my first choice but I'll give it a try. I also forgot that I had a brand new, in the box Magnum roller cam for a 360/390 crate motor (isnt that a .509 or similar?) so maybe that will work OK with the intake.
Im also going to try and use the radiator in the car-its an A/C car so I'll give it a shot with universal fitting hoses.
So no flexplate issues with the 904?
68 Valiant 408 69 Charger 318 69 Cougar 351W 70 Torino GT 351C 71 Country Squire 351W 71 Road Runner 440+6 71 Satellite sedan 318 73 Duster 318 73 Challenger 383 77 Grand Prix 455 83 Malibu 9C1 383 84 Delta 88 403 87 Grand National 96 Ram 360 09 Crown Vic 10 Challenger R/T M6 15 Challenger Hellcat M6
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265516
03/25/09 03:46 PM
03/25/09 03:46 PM
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Joined: May 2004
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Wedgeman
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Dan...
I did a trial fit last week-end with the truck mainfold and they were hitting the steering box and colum.....depending on the engine mounts you have, you may try to shimm with 1/4 steel plates..but one can not go too high because you won't be able to close the hood, so the last option we have is to get those headers....
Also,on an another tread from IMGTX, it has been discussed that the Durango offset bracket would do in our cars.....anyway, try it on , you'll see
So far, I have no promblems with the 904... Daniel
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265517
03/25/09 03:47 PM
03/25/09 03:47 PM
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Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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IMGTX's problem with the mag manifolds was it was hitting the PS box. a manual steer car it might fit...you'll have to try.
the 380/390 crate motor cam is ~ .512" lift, 288/294 adv and IIRC ~230/236@.050 on a 108 LSA.
that cam, LA timing cover, the MP .525" lift valve springs, and an M1 single plane are really the only functional differences between an OEM truck motor and a 380 horse crate.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: patrick]
#265518
03/25/09 04:33 PM
03/25/09 04:33 PM
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sharpie
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Dan, basically the issue with the flexplate or torque converter is that one should be neutrally balanced and one should be balanced to counter-act the dampner.
The B&M flexplate is said to be for a 727. Should work on a 904 as well, but I haven't seen it even attempted. The easiest way to take care of the balancing problem is to balance the balancer to the flexplate and then get a neutrally-balanced converter, since they are more plentiful. You COULD get a torque converter balanced to the dampner and use a 360 LA flexplate, but that's usually more time and money spent.
Let me know if you need anymore specific information. I am almost through my research for the article (serious research going into all of the options) and would like to have it done by June. I will let you know so you can archive it.
Last edited by sharpie; 03/25/09 04:33 PM.
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265521
03/26/09 06:00 AM
03/26/09 06:00 AM
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gdonovan
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Quote:
Id like to try and make the exhaust manifolds work without having to buy headers-can they be notched or something?
I'll be doing this swap on my Duster soon Dan, I have three sets of manifolds to try (van, 92 Ram and 96 Jeep)
The Jeep manifolds are very different than the truck or van units.
Gary
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: sharpie]
#265524
03/26/09 11:18 AM
03/26/09 11:18 AM
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patrick
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which shorties? do you have power steering and brakes?
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: patrick]
#265525
03/26/09 11:44 AM
03/26/09 11:44 AM
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They're in the style of these: I don't think they're that exact brand, but they look similar, especially the driver's side. I have power steering but manual brakes (Wilwood plastic-resevoir master cylinder), so we'll see. I don't mind having to dent a tube or two to get it around the PS box, but we'll see what all is involved.
Last edited by sharpie; 03/26/09 11:44 AM.
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: sharpie]
#265526
03/26/09 01:14 PM
03/26/09 01:14 PM
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patrick
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those look to be the summit shorties that didn't work for IMGTX in his E body--IIRC in his car the collector hit the steering shaft. I'm debating if I want to try these edelbrock 66013 headers in my 5th ave they're slightly longer and might take care of the clearance issue IMGTX had, and they're coated stainless...the downside is they're $460, or $30 more than bare dougs headers (but $130 cheaper than the coated dougs D453's)
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: sharpie]
#265530
03/26/09 05:14 PM
03/26/09 05:14 PM
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blk00rt
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im in the process of the swap right now. I used just regular old a body headers in my dart. They seem to work well, but I have not fired it up yet. I do have to reroute the power steering hose. I have manual brakes so no booster to worry about.
Rob Dunn 1976 Dart Sport 360 2000 dakota RT 408 with 150 nitrous 2013 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi 2009 Jeep Patriot
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: sharpie]
#265532
03/26/09 10:03 PM
03/26/09 10:03 PM
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RangerDan440
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well I took some very rudimentary measurements and looking at the car, I think I might be able to make the truck manifolds work (remember I have manual steering and brakes so Im at an advantage for space) Anyone ever have issues with motor mount shims? I may be able to pull this off with only having to buy the Schumacher mounts
68 Valiant 408 69 Charger 318 69 Cougar 351W 70 Torino GT 351C 71 Country Squire 351W 71 Road Runner 440+6 71 Satellite sedan 318 73 Duster 318 73 Challenger 383 77 Grand Prix 455 83 Malibu 9C1 383 84 Delta 88 403 87 Grand National 96 Ram 360 09 Crown Vic 10 Challenger R/T M6 15 Challenger Hellcat M6
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: Wedgeman]
#265534
03/27/09 06:20 AM
03/27/09 06:20 AM
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gdonovan
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Quote:
don't forget the nose extension for the camshaft
Daniel
I have the bolt & washer part of the HUG 7011 kit if anyone wants it for $19 shipped, decided to go electric.
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: RangerDan440]
#265536
03/27/09 06:33 AM
03/27/09 06:33 AM
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gdonovan
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Quote:
Anyone ever have issues with motor mount shims?
When I shoved a 360 in my GTX for a bit I had no problems.
I wonder where the hell that engine is now? The mind goes...
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: gdonovan]
#265537
03/27/09 08:54 AM
03/27/09 08:54 AM
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patrick
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Quote:
Quote:
Gary,
Don't know about the Jeep ones....what would fit is a 68-70 340 style driver's side manifold, the one going upward.....you know ?
Daniel
Yes that would be best but in researching the issue there is two problems.
1) People report a port mismatch at the bottom causing an exhaust leak (either right away or when the gasket burns through due to so little meat being there)
2) Cost of the early "header" manifold.
The older manifolds are nice looking but the cost to power ratio is not there for me and dyno reports back that up.
If I can fit the 92 magnum manfolds in they go toe to toe with the 68-70 340 in regards to flow and there are no sealing issues. If I have to go with the jeep manifolds (which arrived yesterday, I'll take pics today) then at best I'll lose a few hp and live with that.
I'm too old to be changing gaskets every year, I want to assemble the car and go and make it as idiot proof (trouble free) as possible.
Great dyno shoot out on manifolds here-
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...aust/index.html
I intend to compile a lot of information on my website so in the future there is a guide for these conversions.
jeep manifolds have been discussed before and are a no-go. the jeeps move the starter to the pass side of the engine, so the drivers side jeep manifold dumps right on top of the starter in a normal LA configuration.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: /6 To 360 Magnum Parts and Labor Checklist
[Re: patrick]
#265538
03/27/09 09:31 AM
03/27/09 09:31 AM
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gdonovan
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Quote:
jeep manifolds have been discussed before and are a no-go. the jeeps move the starter to the pass side of the engine, so the drivers side jeep manifold dumps right on top of the starter in a normal LA configuration.
With both style starters?
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