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Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624300
02/21/19 05:24 PM
02/21/19 05:24 PM
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Chip Offline
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Chip  Offline
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

If the crank is cut with the 2.200 BBC journals...is there a better selection of main bearings? 440source kits come with bearings.

So I will look at different Cam options too. The MP 590 is as old as the TRW 2293's that came outta my 383...

Dwayne...i hear you about wanting more power in the future...but I can build for that then. Winters are long here as you know:) I will have to look into your services.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624302
02/21/19 05:33 PM
02/21/19 05:33 PM
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krautrock Offline
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i think the problem is the main bearings selection, not the rod bearings. a 2.2 journal is the rod journal.

while we are on the subject, any of you guys think the PP240 head is too much head for a healthy 451 low deck street motor with maybe a cam like the MP 284 solid.

Last edited by krautrock; 02/21/19 05:34 PM.
Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: krautrock] #2624322
02/21/19 06:19 PM
02/21/19 06:19 PM
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By the time you bore the mains on the 400 block to 440 size, you will have spent the better part of $1000. As long as you're doing it, you need aftermarket caps. Then there's the issue of finding a shop to do the work. They have to have the right machinery. Then consider that in what is probably the weakest part of the block you have removed material.

When E-berg built his stroker years ago he bored the mains and everyone jumped on him about it.

Chuck Senatore says in his book to build the biggest shortblock you can afford. He knows a lot, I'd say take his advice.

R.

PS: I was a fierce proponent of long rods until Enginemasters winners seemed to be using some pretty short rods. Big inch LS and Hemi engines are using R/S ratios of around 1.53:1 meaning a 6.125 on a 4" stroke, and getting nearly 2hp/cubic inch. Kaase built a modular engine that won and it had a 4.625" stroke with a rod that couldn't have been longer than 6.5" for a R/S of 1.40. The mountain motors are all running R/S ratios around 1.38.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624608
02/22/19 10:40 AM
02/22/19 10:40 AM
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Chip Offline
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OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read.

I see Trickflow has a cam for racing...

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-61602003

Anyone tried this Cam?

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624618
02/22/19 11:22 AM
02/22/19 11:22 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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The 505 we are currently building is going together very easy. It is the 440 source kit with the light weight crank option and rods with the ARP2000 bolts. All the clearances were good, did not have to miss with fitting the rod pin ends, 0.0025" rod clearances, 0.003" main clearances.
crank end plat in spec, rod side clearances in spec, crank and rods clear the block fine, closest the rod comes is to the oil puckup tube that has the large 1/2" tube adaptor on the pickup tube. The cam bearings even went in with no problem or having to clearance them.
So far only thing not totally happy with was the balance job. Although it is fine for the mild combination we are building, the weight difference on the rod big ends varied by about 3-grams.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: Chip] #2624705
02/22/19 02:34 PM
02/22/19 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By Chip
OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read.



That's what I have in mine, full groove mains in this 451. I've had it apart once for inspection since the initial build, they're holding up.
No worries, you can run those P bearings.

I usually use 15w40 or 20w50 oil, 65+ psi hot, but I'm thinking I might run 30 weight this spring, maybe synthetic, and see how I like it.
I bet it will be fine.

Can't help on the cam (mines a solid roller).


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624725
02/22/19 02:57 PM
02/22/19 02:57 PM
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AndyF Offline OP
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The issue with the main bearings isn't the quality but the availability. What happens if you want coated mains for a low deck? How about coated and chamfered? How about 0.001 undersize or split sizes or 0.001 under with a chamfer and you need it tomorrow?

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624772
02/22/19 04:52 PM
02/22/19 04:52 PM
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Chip Offline
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Thanks for the input on the bearings Andy. I chose the 400 block for its strength in the bottom end from what I have read...I hope the bearing thing won't be and issue for my builder. I will discuss this with him.

Thanks again.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: ZIPPY] #2624773
02/22/19 04:54 PM
02/22/19 04:54 PM
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Chip Offline
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Zippy, what heads and solid roller cam do you have?

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624783
02/22/19 05:16 PM
02/22/19 05:16 PM
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Chip, I am running RPM heads that I blended slightly at home (by eye/common sense...I don't have a flow bench), and a .630 gross lift Custom Comp that was ordered from Dwayne Porter.

Off the shelf bearing selection is kind of limiting.
at least 440 source has chamfered mains available.

Old ('70s) publications used to discuss various ways builders would massage the bearings for a desired end result. I've never done anything like that myself, but it is funny how it is almost a taboo topic these days.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624788
02/22/19 05:26 PM
02/22/19 05:26 PM
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Chip Offline
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Thanks Zippy!

Here is a quota on Mahle-Clevite website about coated bearings...

"We often get customer inquiries for coated bearings that we do not produce. We deal with three excellent and well-known coaters in the USA and any of the three can meet your needs for a coated Clevite bearing. They are: CALICO Coatings in Denver, NC, HM Elliott in Mooresville, NC and POLYDYN in Houston, TX. They all can be accessed via a web search. Tell them they were recommended by MAHLE Aftermarket Inc."

Anyone ever tried this process? I guess it won't help in the limited size availability.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: AndyF] #2624799
02/22/19 05:41 PM
02/22/19 05:41 PM
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Ive sent my own bearings to calico along with the pistons and valves to have done, they also had the same bearings already coated but did mine for the listed fee.

Alot of guys in the know use calico.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: Chip] #2624881
02/22/19 09:05 PM
02/22/19 09:05 PM
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If I'm doing a low deck engine I order main bearings a few weeks in advance from Hughes Engines. Hughes will chamfer them and get them coated but it takes time.

Hughes can't make what doesn't exist though so there aren't any 3/4 groove bearings for low decks and there probably aren't any 0.001 undersize bearings so your crank grinding has to be spot on.

If you are dealing with a shop that doesn't do a lot of Mopar engine they might not know this stuff. If they do a lot of Chevy engines then they are used to being able to order coated bearings overnight delivery from Summit.

Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: Chip] #2624957
02/23/19 12:53 AM
02/23/19 12:53 AM
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mopar dave Offline
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I used the Clevite ms876p full groove main bearings in my 511 with Molnar crank. I did not chamfer them. Plain forgot too, but had .008 or .009 crank end play anyway. Didn't have any binding of any kind. Beat on it last 2 seasons and so far all is well with 80psi cold oil pressure and 65 hot at idle in drive. I use Amsoil 20/50 Dominator with .003" main bearing clearance.
Also, just remember coating those bearings closes up some oil clearance.

Last edited by mopar dave; 02/23/19 12:55 AM.
Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: Chip] #2625036
02/23/19 11:47 AM
02/23/19 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted By Chip
Thanks for the feedback guys.

If the crank is cut with the 2.200 BBC journals...is there a better selection of main bearings? 440source kits come with bearings.

So I will look at different Cam options too. The MP 590 is as old as the TRW 2293's that came outta my 383...

Dwayne...i hear you about wanting more power in the future...but I can build for that then. Winters are long here as you know:) I will have to look into your services.
The calender moves much quicker than you think! Plan for that extra power as much as you can now so you don't have to duplicate purchases or worse, re engineer a large part of your build. Stick with the small main bearings.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: The 505 must be getting popular [Re: Chip] #2625251
02/23/19 10:17 PM
02/23/19 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted By Chip
OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read.

I see Trickflow has a cam for racing...

https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-61602003

Anyone tried this Cam?


It is probably O.K. in a generic sort of way , but TrickFlow is known for cylinder heads.
I'd call a cam grinder and get exactly what you want.
There are several I have read about on these pages.
I called Bullet and really like what they came up with for me.
You will need specific numbers......head flow at the top of that list.
But build info......compression , intake , trans , gears etc.
Intended use.
Mine is not an all out effort , and I made some compromises for street manners.....so this isn't just for hard core race engines.
What they suggest will not be reinventing the wheel , but more like refining it specifically to your motor / car.

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