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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2621694
02/15/19 02:54 PM
02/15/19 02:54 PM
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Al_Alguire Offline
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Not many 1100Hp 400" Big blocks out there. Quite a few 1100hp small blocks out there, just saying. Also FWIW other makes have SB stuff that is a wider bore space they can work with as well.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: Al_Alguire] #2621698
02/15/19 03:08 PM
02/15/19 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
Not many 1100Hp 400" Big blocks out there. Quite a few 1100hp small blocks out there, just saying. Also FWIW other makes have SB stuff that is a wider bore space they can work with as well.


Yep. Just like everything else Chrysler, you're screwed. The bigger bore spacing GM spaced stuff will beat all comers.

Are you saying 1100 HP NA stuff using Chrysler architecture? Pretty impressive.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: madscientist] #2621915
02/15/19 11:33 PM
02/15/19 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By madscientist


Are you saying 1100 HP NA stuff using Chrysler architecture? Pretty impressive.
. In Australian Pro Stock the small block Dodge has been at the top.. Bob book has built some pretty impressive ones as well.. there is room in a certain aftermarket block to do a 4 500 inch bore space. Sbm.... and a set of W8 could be manipulated

Last edited by WHITEDART; 02/16/19 12:35 AM.

In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2621933
02/15/19 11:58 PM
02/15/19 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By madscientist


Are you saying 1100 HP NA stuff using Chrysler architecture? Pretty impressive.
. In Australian Pro Stock the small block Dodge has been at the top.. Bob book has built some pretty impressive ones as well.. there is room in a certain aftermarket block to do a 4 500 inch bore space. Sbm.... can a set of W8 could be manipulated


I forgot about the down under guys.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: madscientist] #2621957
02/16/19 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By madscientist


Are you saying 1100 HP NA stuff using Chrysler architecture? Pretty impressive.
. In Australian Pro Stock the small block Dodge has been at the top.. Bob book has built some pretty impressive ones as well.. there is room in a certain aftermarket block to do a 4 500 inch bore space. Sbm.... and a set of W8 could be manipulated


I forgot about the down under guys.
. Did Chrysler do 4.500 bore space in NASCAR.
I want to say it was around the time Sterling Martin was driving the Coors car I thought I read something along those lines. I think it was quickly band if my memory serves me correctly which it rarely does


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2621977
02/16/19 01:55 AM
02/16/19 01:55 AM
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Not many guys have the budget to build some of these engines a few of you are using for examples. High dollar high maintenance stuff for a few races a year


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622038
02/16/19 10:03 AM
02/16/19 10:03 AM
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ric3xrt Offline
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Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By madscientist


Are you saying 1100 HP NA stuff using Chrysler architecture? Pretty impressive.
. In Australian Pro Stock the small block Dodge has been at the top.. Bob book has built some pretty impressive ones as well.. there is room in a certain aftermarket block to do a 4 500 inch bore space. Sbm.... and a set of W8 could be manipulated


I forgot about the down under guys.
. Did Chrysler do 4.500 bore space in NASCAR.
I want to say it was around the time Sterling Martin was driving the Coors car I thought I read something along those lines. I think it was quickly band if my memory serves me correctly which it rarely does



r6 block is 4.5 BC I'm doing one now, R6P8

Erin Elliot , has gone 1200 with the R5P7 Larry Wallace has had some good luck, And Patterson racing

You can take the R5 to 4.250" bore, the steam holes keep you from going any larger….but would you dare…….. best bet is to stop at 4.20/4.22,
4.185X3.75(413CI) Great combo ...for any one who wants to spend the coin.... it will equal any power out put of the same CI RO7/X or SB2
R5 can take a 3.75 stroke and still have cylinder wall length to support a typical piston skirt , a 4.000" stroke will fit, issue there is rod ratio and urber short hockey puck piston……. And it makes for a short lived “race engine”

R5 block and P7 heads With 4.310" Nikosil liners and boring the mains to 2.500", to give you some more crank overlap a 467CI is possible and has been done and will make enough power to turn a top fuel Blower at 8k and have a few 100 to spare.



With out a doubt the larger the bore the better with a wedge, canted valve and Hemis, don't seam to care as much, less chance of shrouding the valve...one thing we all can agree on is the larger the Intake valve the better.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622062
02/16/19 12:01 PM
02/16/19 12:01 PM
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polyspheric Offline
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When you change the bore pitch, you shorten the list of inherited characteristics. Like valve size and position, chamber shape, port config.
Oh wait - it's everything.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: polyspheric] #2622478
02/17/19 10:14 AM
02/17/19 10:14 AM
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There would be a point of deminishing returns in regards making the highest hp per cube, I recall it being somewhere in the 3-400 cube range. I can't recall exactly.
Whilst a big bore is always better in terms of airflow, it's not the case when it comes to friction. There is a presentation on YouTube about it, one of the Cup guys presented it at a AETC or something similar. Very interesting


Alan Jones
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622540
02/17/19 03:00 PM
02/17/19 03:00 PM
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FWIW I had a BB that made 2.64 per cube. Oh did I mention it was a 99/06 Hemi smile Compared to some of the comp stuff that's just for beginners. I know of more than a few right at 2.8/2.9 that are in the 350-360" range


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622611
02/17/19 05:40 PM
02/17/19 05:40 PM
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polyspheric Offline
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a big bore is always better in terms of airflow...
... and carries with it new problems w/r/t combustion chamber shape, charge energy loss, swirl, quench, mixture direction bias, flame front propagation, etc.

Smaller cylinders with very high B:S ratios make the most power, but the parasitic loads are not scaled, so a 90" V12 isn't as much better as you may suppose.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: polyspheric] #2622721
02/17/19 10:38 PM
02/17/19 10:38 PM
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I have wondered about the parasitic loss due to big bore with short stroke versus small bore with a long stroke confused
I've always though that RPM was RPM ,no matter what the bore and stroke was for the same C.I. motor confused shruggy work
I understand the N/A Pro Stock type motors use a large bore(4.625+) with a short stroke to meet the rules of 500 C.I. but how much of that is to get the bigger valves in the heads versus running a 4.350 bore with a long enough stroke to make 500 C.I.? confused


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622756
02/18/19 12:10 AM
02/18/19 12:10 AM
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I'm sure there are frictional differences between those choices, I'm just not up on them, perhaps someone can help?


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: polyspheric] #2622783
02/18/19 01:14 AM
02/18/19 01:14 AM
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For the friction aspect, the long stroke would be at a disadvantage due to the higher rod angularity in the case of the SB (side loading piston more)? Longer stroke would also have higher piston speed, also increasing it's friction. Wonder how close to a wash it would be (BB vs SB friction)?

Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: Al_Alguire] #2622797
02/18/19 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
FWIW I had a BB that made 2.64 per cube. Oh did I mention it was a 99/06 Hemi smile Compared to some of the comp stuff that's just for beginners. I know of more than a few right at 2.8/2.9 that are in the 350-360" range
. I have a goal of 2.55 per cubic inch on the next W8 motor.. obviously dynos very. But 2.55 on the tool that we use is going to be tough


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622822
02/18/19 04:23 AM
02/18/19 04:23 AM
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For anyone that may have been interested, the section about efficiency starts at around the 10 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZCnG1HwDM

Last edited by LA360; 02/18/19 04:26 AM.

Alan Jones
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622876
02/18/19 12:34 PM
02/18/19 12:34 PM
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polyspheric Offline
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the long stroke would be at a disadvantage due to the higher rod angularity
But... that's rod ratio-dependent? Don't all BBC have short rods (stock 454: 1.53:1)?

Longer stroke would also have higher piston speed, also increasing it's friction.
Reduced by the smaller wall contact area?


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622900
02/18/19 01:37 PM
02/18/19 01:37 PM
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BBC 454 is 1.53 ,BBC 427 and 396 were 1.636 SBC 400 1.466.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: ric3xrt] #2622952
02/18/19 04:03 PM
02/18/19 04:03 PM
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I thought all three early BB Chevy type motors ran the same length rods confused
Wasn't the 396 motor the smallest bore with the same stroke as the 427 and the 454 increased the stroke from 3 3/4 to 4.0 inch stroke with the same 4.250 bore as the 427 had ? confused


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2622996
02/18/19 05:50 PM
02/18/19 05:50 PM
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polyspheric Offline
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Same rod, inherited from the 348 W engine in 1958.
3.76" & 4.00"


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