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preoiling issue #2621095
02/14/19 02:18 AM
02/14/19 02:18 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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360 long block fresh build hyd lifters oil thru pushrods mag heads. I preoiled today & one rocker was flooding with oil & several rockers were getting a slight amt of oil but the rest of em were dry, WTH?. Does this sound like the lifters or pushrods are plugged or is this from the lifters being at different height? tho visually several of em at least appeared to be at the same height in the lifter bores as the one that was oiling profusely. Thank you for your time.


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621098
02/14/19 02:23 AM
02/14/19 02:23 AM
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Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
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RR .... maybe using my NEW AND IMPROVED preoiling tool can help !

Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621104
02/14/19 02:33 AM
02/14/19 02:33 AM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Are you turning the crankshaft slowly while running the drill?

Re: preoiling issue [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2621105
02/14/19 02:34 AM
02/14/19 02:34 AM
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garnett kansas
rhad Offline
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did you rotate the engine by hand as you were pre oiling?


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: rhad] #2621107
02/14/19 02:37 AM
02/14/19 02:37 AM
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RapidRobert Offline OP
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No I wasn't turning the crank cuz I didn't think it was needed & I didn't wanna wipe the lobes. EDIT I could turn it if that is what I am missing then regoop the lobes. MORE EDIT Doc what special tool do you have? & Doc I am gonna put that motorhome 440 in the truck with the granny 4 sp/hyd clutch.

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Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/14/19 02:52 AM.

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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621121
02/14/19 03:06 AM
02/14/19 03:06 AM
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Florida STAYcation
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RR ... is the crank drilled for a manual trans ?

Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621135
02/14/19 03:43 AM
02/14/19 03:43 AM
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chicagoland,usa
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Try turning crankshaft one revolution, then prime again and see who's then gushing.

Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621145
02/14/19 04:36 AM
02/14/19 04:36 AM
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I always pull all the spark plugs before pre oiling and then turn the motor over by hand on the engine stand slowly while priming on all the motors I build and or assemble wrench scope twocents
As you already know all the LA motors have real issues with the pushrod to rocker arm angles so expecting all the lifters to oil all the pushrods and rocker arms at one crankshaft position is hoping for miracles, correct whistling grin
Prime and rotate while priming and let us know your results scope grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621181
02/14/19 10:59 AM
02/14/19 10:59 AM
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Mass
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Try loosening the rocker shafts and try to pre-oil again.You should see oil coming out of the push rods if all is well


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621217
02/14/19 12:26 PM
02/14/19 12:26 PM
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Since RR doesn;t say...

If it's an LA engine, you need to rotate it as you prelube.

IF is't a magnum engine rotating does nothing for you.

Since you allude to oiling thru the push rods, or at least expecting to see oil out of the push rods I assume it's a magnum? If so, don't bother rotating it as that is not relevant.


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Don't be the exception.
Re: preoiling issue [Re: Supercuda] #2621335
02/14/19 04:20 PM
02/14/19 04:20 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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It is mag heads with mag pedestal rockers/hollow pushrods (so full time oiling). I put a gauge on it to check the psi (80 so plenty there). I pulled a pair of rockers & no oil out the (2) pushrods. pulled the pushrods & no oil out the lifter tops. dropped in another spare identical rocker & lo & behold oil was gushing out of the lifter top so the lifters must be plugged up but they are new... so I undid one & it has a wafer thin round disc right under the lifter cup & the lifter cup will sit flat WO the disc in there so evidently these lifters even with the oiling hole in the lifter cup that the disc is placed there only to keep oil psi from bleeding off unneccessarily on a non pushrod oiling app so I think when I toss the discs all will be good. Thanks guys & Doc I had forgotten about the pilot hole potential but it is in my head now, thank you.


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621409
02/14/19 08:33 PM
02/14/19 08:33 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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I got to thinking of another lifter I had apart aways back & the thin disc had some holes in it for a metered amt of oil & then it hit me that this one yesterday right after I tossed the disc is virtually FLOODING the rockers so that ain't right. I could order another set (& check that they are oil thru) OR I have a set that was broken in for I'd say 10 minutes (if that) on another cam (breakin aborted cuz of another type of oiling prob) that I could use if they are still useable on this new cam. I did butt two of em together & there is a significant amount of "rock" as opposed to both bottoms being flat (if that means anything). what do you guys think?


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621663
02/15/19 02:07 PM
02/15/19 02:07 PM
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north of coder
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i have been told, as well as having read articles on this, to disassemble new hydraulic FT lifters and clean them good. this is to insure nothing is inside the assembly that shouldn't be there, as well as insure no debris is left behind from the machining process.
as with all new engine parts today, this seems to be good practice.
beer

Re: preoiling issue [Re: moparx] #2621738
02/15/19 04:52 PM
02/15/19 04:52 PM
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Well, Blazin' Bob, better find the metering plate(s) you tossed. Yes, that's what they do, they meter the oil that goes up through the pushrod.
See attached drawing:

Best Regards,
R.

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Re: preoiling issue [Re: dogdays] #2621746
02/15/19 05:04 PM
02/15/19 05:04 PM
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One other thing: As the lifters oil through the pushrods and are fed by the oil galleries that pressurize the hydraulic lifters, you accomplish nothing by rotating the crank while preoiling, unless you rotate fast enough that the metering valves start letting oil up through the pushrods.

The regular LA way of oiling the upstairs was by oil that traveled from the camshaft up special passages through the block , then the head gasket up to the head up into the rocker shafts and then through holes/banana grooves into the rocker/shaft interface. The oil supply from the camshaft was metered by the camshaft journal which had holes in it so the oil only actually traveled intermittently when the hole in the cam passed the hole in the cam bearing up to the rocker shaft, that's how I remember it anyway.
R.

Re: preoiling issue [Re: dogdays] #2621754
02/15/19 05:18 PM
02/15/19 05:18 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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Hey Dog its been awhile. Here is where I am at: the lifter set that has maybe 10 minutes of run time on a prior eng & on the shelf HAS the plates with metered oil (I would love to toss these in if you guys think they are still OK on the bottom convex). the set in the eng now that precipitated this thread have metering plates with NO oil holes (they had no flow). I just now stopped by O'reillys on the way home & bought a single lifter (melling & I told the man 1975 dart with a 360) & I opened it up & its flat plate has NO holes (just like the ones in the eng now). PLEASE tell me I can use the 10 min run time set OR a brand/part # of some that are metered. EDIT I ain't tossed anything (yet).

Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/15/19 05:19 PM.

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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621763
02/15/19 05:48 PM
02/15/19 05:48 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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You need lifters for an AMC.

Ask the local parts store for lifters for a 1974 AMC Javelin with a 360.


Rich H.

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Re: preoiling issue [Re: ZIPPY] #2621772
02/15/19 05:59 PM
02/15/19 05:59 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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Just got off the ph with O'reillys the said the AMC ones are the same ones they list for the 75 dodge 360, the one I just brought home, a Melling JB2011


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Re: preoiling issue [Re: RapidRobert] #2621794
02/15/19 06:59 PM
02/15/19 06:59 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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The 2011 number sounds right, based on Hylift Johnson A-2011 for the AMC application.

However if it's lacking an oil hole, that's not going to work.

Might be worth checking to see if they did not give you a Melling JB976 inside the package, or they could also be JB2011 outers with JB976 guts.

Re: preoiling issue [Re: ZIPPY] #2621840
02/15/19 09:04 PM
02/15/19 09:04 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline OP
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I called AZ & same thing, the same part #'s & they said they also have a pricier melling performance lifter 290114 (not sure if he assumed a JB in front of that # cuz he just got done mentioning the JB2011 in the conversation & he said they both in their pic show the top hole & I explained the inner hidden hole that is needed but he did all he could & I told him I appreciated his (good faith) effort. Are the (10 minute) used ones a no go??? If so I might just have to open em all up (32) & swap the flat metering plates (I can hardly wait!).


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