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Long rams vs modern dual planes #2620587
02/13/19 12:27 AM
02/13/19 12:27 AM
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Irving, TX
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I'm still daydreaming about dropping a long ram intake setup on the Imperial. The 440 is being built with an eye on low to mid range torque and largely ignoring anything above 4500 rpm.

Have there been any direct comparison tests between the old long ram (30" divider) intakes and the modern intakes like the Performer or even the old Torker?
I know the long tubes would fall flat well before 5,000 rpm but it would be interesting to see the area under the curve at lower rpm.

Hacking one for port EFI would cure the old fuel puddling issue and likely send parts collectors into low earth orbit.

Yeah, for me it's all vapor but I do enjoy a good think about stuff like this.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620596
02/13/19 12:44 AM
02/13/19 12:44 AM
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Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Could you widdle up a spacer for injector bungs and not hack up the original intake?


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620598
02/13/19 12:49 AM
02/13/19 12:49 AM
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up yours
Supercuda Offline
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widdle?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/widdle

I think you mean whittle


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: Supercuda] #2620601
02/13/19 01:02 AM
02/13/19 01:02 AM
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Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
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Originally Posted By Supercuda
widdle?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/widdle

I think you mean whittle


k thanks.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: GoodysGotaCuda] #2620629
02/13/19 02:08 AM
02/13/19 02:08 AM
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dogdays Offline
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You guys are hopeless. You keep buzzing around those long rams like they're going to do something for you. Don't you suppose that if they were so all-fired good that there'd be more of them in use? I think there was a direct comparison in Hot Rod's 383 intake test which I can't download because my operating system is so old.

Good Luck!
R.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: dogdays] #2620650
02/13/19 03:38 AM
02/13/19 03:38 AM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted By dogdays
You guys are hopeless. You keep buzzing around those long rams like they're going to do something for you. Don't you suppose that if they were so all-fired good that there'd be more of them in use? I think there was a direct comparison in Hot Rod's 383 intake test which I can't download because my operating system is so old.

Good Luck!
R.


The old 383 intake test didn't include the long ram. Part 2 included a cross ram that didn't do well.

But, yeah, long runner intakes.







We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620651
02/13/19 03:39 AM
02/13/19 03:39 AM
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Thinking about doing inline low rise dual fours on my 59'Imperial

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: BulletBob] #2620656
02/13/19 04:13 AM
02/13/19 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted By BulletBob
Thinking about doing inline low rise dual fours on my 59'Imperial


The little Offy inline dual quad seems to be okay on mild to moderate engines, at least by what I've read.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: BulletBob] #2620665
02/13/19 05:30 AM
02/13/19 05:30 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By BulletBob
Thinking about doing inline low rise dual fours on my 59'Imperial

You'll be sorry, I've used both the early inline dual four for wedge motors and the early first gen Hemi motor intake, no good except at WOT above 3500 RPM whiney shruggy
one of my first halfway fast street cars was a 1934 Ford pick up that had been chop and channeled, it weigh under 2800 Lbs. without me in it with the near stock 1955 Chrysler 331 C.I. hemi, I put headers on it and a inline dual four intake off of a Jensen sport car with some early small CFM Carter AFB carbs, the stock dual plane single intake with one of those AFB drove a lot nicer below 3500 RPM than the dual quad set up did but being a guy under 22 yrs old back then I left them on realcrazy
One of the first drag cars, (1960 Dodge Phoenix that weighed over 4000 Lbs with out me in it shock) I put together had a stroker 383 motor that was 454 C.I. that had been run up in Fremont CA as a Super Stock car in a 1959 Plymouth Savoy whistling devil
He got caught and banned so I ended up with it boogie
That car ran 12.80 on a set of J.C Penney 800x14x7 inch wide slicks on it with me in it at the old Thermal airport Drags back in 1969, that car had a 3.73 gear open rear end it with a stock cast iron early torkflyte and stock converter shruggy
I never drove that car with the stock AFB single carb and intake but I was told the Plymouth ran a lot faster than my Dodge did with the same motor and tranny shruggy
If you have both intakes try them both and go from their up , we all don't like the same thing so test, test and test some more scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/13/19 05:31 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620701
02/13/19 10:29 AM
02/13/19 10:29 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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the edelbrock ch28 is the ticket for inline carbs. the long rams don't flow any air according to hugh's flow test. I use a ch28 with a pair of 600's and it has been absolutely the most trouble free reliable intake I've ever ran on a 440.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620712
02/13/19 11:11 AM
02/13/19 11:11 AM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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I hear people say that the long rams dumped at 5K.My 60 D500 never did.It would pull beyond that.Maybe I had a odd ball.Only problem I ever had was fouling plugs in daily driving which it did every day.Was my high school ride.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: therocks] #2620735
02/13/19 12:33 PM
02/13/19 12:33 PM
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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Christmas day back in the late 60's, with my younger sister in the car, we were first car in line that got stuck waiting for a passing train, when gates went up, I kicked it to to clean it out, all the the black smoke got me pulled over by a nearby LEO, said I did a burn out, I asked him where the tire tracks were? I got off, again. biggrin


On my long ram project, I can't see getting an optimum injector angle that just doesn't eventually aim at the floor of the manifold/head, so trying to go route for a bottom long ram port injector location, aiming at the roof, thinking with that small of inlet tract on a big inch motor, puddling will not be an issue, and keep a more period correct look.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: jcc] #2620787
02/13/19 02:55 PM
02/13/19 02:55 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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here is a thought. what about using spacers between the head and intakes, housing the injectors, and throttle bodies where the carbs go, creating a dry intake ?
the spacers would be relatively easy to fab up.
beer

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620791
02/13/19 03:08 PM
02/13/19 03:08 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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QuickD100/Dave is getting ready to do a dyno test on one of these pretty soon. Not sure if he's doing multiple manifolds or just the ram, but you might want to get ahold of him and see what's up.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2620796
02/13/19 03:12 PM
02/13/19 03:12 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/4portedintakemanifoldsupdated08272007.php

I haven't seen any dyno tests, but hughes cfm numbers tell an interesting story. For a stock big block head flowing say 230-ish CFM, the long rams look like they would provide ample flow. So as long as you're running stock or near stock heads, you should be fine and I think they would run well with a port efi conversion or a propane conversion would be fun to try. You want the intake to flow more than your heads, how much more is up for debate.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: moparx] #2620811
02/13/19 03:37 PM
02/13/19 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted By moparx
here is a thought. what about using spacers between the head and intakes, housing the injectors, and throttle bodies where the carbs go, creating a dry intake ?
the spacers would be relatively easy to fab up.
beer


I don't see how to get a decent injector angle with that solution, unless the spacer is 3-4" deep. Additionally, since the long ram has such a poor reputation on puddling, seems to me to be counter intuitive to change over to an efi system, and just have puddling move to a different location. Your idea would be the simplest. Years back I asked here about a 90Deg injector, didn't get any leads.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: jcc] #2620830
02/13/19 03:54 PM
02/13/19 03:54 PM
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moparx Offline
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very true about the puddling problem. i have thought about this over the years, but haven't taken the time to really investigate, or plan out this suggestion. always other projects come before, and at this time, i'm preparing an engine/transmission combo to install in my charger so i can have some fun before i croak, instead of working on/building cars for others like i have done over the last 15-20 years.
i hope to return to this thought in the future though.
beer

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: dogdays] #2620832
02/13/19 03:56 PM
02/13/19 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By dogdays
You guys are hopeless. You keep buzzing around those long rams like they're going to do something for you. Don't you suppose that if they were so all-fired good that there'd be more of them in use? I think there was a direct comparison in Hot Rod's 383 intake test which I can't download because my operating system is so old.

Good Luck!
R.


They didn't do a long ram test in that series, unfortunately. But, I was surprised by how broad the torque and HP range was with the tall tunnel ram. For all the stories of them only being good over 4500, as I recall, it pretty much spanked everything everywhere in the curve in those tests.

I beleive they were originally done by Hot Rod, so they are probably floating around on the interwebs.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2621065
02/14/19 12:47 AM
02/14/19 12:47 AM
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I had a couple ram engines rebuilt, one was a 1960 300F 413 engine with 63 300J short ram intakes and 3505s carbs. Stock stroke, stock compression, stock small valve heads with a very light pocket cleanup and a mild cam (similar to stock, went with a hyd roller) basically a stock rebuild but with lighter pistons and a warmer cam. I had it dyno'd and it performed well. TQ peak was at 3,600 rpm/351hp. Peak HP was 410 at 5,000, 421tq. It started falling off steadily past 5,000 rpm but the torque curve was very long and flat.

Re: Long rams vs modern dual planes [Re: feets] #2621086
02/14/19 01:45 AM
02/14/19 01:45 AM
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ScottSmith_Harms that's a lot what I was thinking about with my 59" Crown

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