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#2619996 - 02/11/19 06:00 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: madscientist]
LA360 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5599
Loc: Melbourne , Australia
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By CMcAllister
A 400" big bore, short stroke, 10,000RPM big block is a pretty exotic piece for most people reading this.


A single 4 and correctly sized heads won't need 10k. 8500-8800 is a pedestrian RPM today and that should be all it would need. Also, cam timing would be relatively short. That's also a bonus. The better the head, the less timing you need to get the same RPM.


An all out W8 headed small block will make peak power at around 10K, willmake around 2.7-2.8 HP per cube. I don't see a B1 original head matching the HP/ci at under 9K. They're a 30 year old head design. I think the fact that they weren't ever really taken up in Super Stock or Comp Eliminator if fairly telling. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one
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#2619997 - 02/11/19 06:08 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: 65signet]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13965
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By 65signet
A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.






That’s what I hear.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2620049 - 02/11/19 08:36 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
polyspheric Offline
master

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 3035
Loc: New York
Ever hear this?
"What hits is history, what missed is mystery".
Winners get more press than losers.
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#2620108 - 02/11/19 10:17 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: pittsburghracer]
WHITEDART Online   laugh2
master

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 2644
Loc: bean town ....Ca
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By 65signet
A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.






That’s what I hear.
I keep hearing about these fast gen 3s where are they
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In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.39 8.52 159.

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#2620109 - 02/11/19 10:24 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13965
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By 65signet
A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.






That’s what I hear.
I keep hearing about these fast gen 3s where are they



That Smith guy is building one but it’s a Pro Mod I’ve been told.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2620120 - 02/11/19 10:51 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: pittsburghracer]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By 65signet
A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.






That’s what I hear.


Why is there a B1 headed big block in you "heads up" car ?
Was that just "easy button" for you ?
LMAO !
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#2620165 - 02/12/19 04:42 AM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
ric3xrt Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 1321
Loc: Trumbauersville PA
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By 65signet
A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.






That’s what I hear.
I keep hearing about these fast gen 3s where are they


Unfortunately far a few between right now,

NA 392-440CI G3 hemi will make 700-750 Flywheel , stock block Ported Apache heads STOCK VALVE TRAIN. and .640-.650 lift cam. same short block with ported Eagle(or 6.1) heads will do 600-700.....can't say it's cheaper and over 800hp in the G3 platform is definitely not cheep.

My opinion $ for $ a 451-500 B block based combos is the best bang for the buck, Non Hemi type build.

440CI(SBM)vs 440CI(BBM)vs 440CI(G3HEMI) again my opinion your best HP/CI is going to be the SBM, reason being the siamese exhaust port on the W8/W9 head has better cooling between the ports than any of the BBM heads I've ever cut apart....the G3 is limited in Valve lift in its stock form and to over come it is too pricey to kept inline with cost HP/CI of the other 2.
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#2620173 - 02/12/19 05:51 AM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
Mcode69 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Australia
Just repeating something I heard that Herb Mcandless said decades ago, "you will need a 600 HP big block to drive past a 500 HP small block",or something VERY close to that, it's been a long time and I've thought about it over the years and I thought he followed it up with "And you can't leave 600 HP turned on for very long without doing non engine related damage" I spose when you think it through, the small block is probably going to leave the line harder [less torque turning the tyres] around 200 lbs. less weight on the front of the car, Maybe a 904 instead of the 727 and the big block is going to still need a bit up it's sleeve to drive by.......I thought it was still and interesting statement!

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#2620229 - 02/12/19 09:44 AM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: Mcode69]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13965
Loc: PA.
It still comes down to the fact that you can give some guys 700 horsepower and another guy 550 horsepower and if the 550 horsepower guy is a track tuner he would kick the 700 horsepower guys butt. Some guys get hooked up on numbers but can’t do anything with them.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2620274 - 02/12/19 11:22 AM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
wheres all the FAST smallblock mopar heads up cars??

don't get me wrong, id rather have a smallblock because they are so much easier than a tractor size motor bigblock, all big and goofy...but I just don't see it?? Meanwhile small block chevy and ford are right there....Again must be the R&D going into the more popular engines. Meanwhile im trying to race in a a heads up class (Ultra street) with a 30year old dinasour cyl head big block...LOL.

I don't know anything about boost, but its a lot easier to get 600hp nitrous through a 540 or bigger engine than through a 440 (smallblock)


Edited by n20mstr (02/12/19 11:25 AM)
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#2620280 - 02/12/19 12:04 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: ric3xrt]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 4148
Loc: Canada
To overcome the Gen 3’s valvetrain shortcomings you need to splurge for the T&D/Jesel stuff? What kind of lift can you get from them? How does a similar high end T&D/Jesel set up cost for W8 heads?

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#2620288 - 02/12/19 12:28 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: n20mstr]
WHITEDART Online   laugh2
master

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 2644
Loc: bean town ....Ca
Originally Posted By n20mstr
wheres all the FAST smallblock mopar heads up cars??

don't get me wrong, id rather have a smallblock because they are so much easier than a tractor size motor bigblock, all big and goofy...but I just don't see it?? Meanwhile small block chevy and ford are right there....Again must be the R&D going into the more popular engines. Meanwhile im trying to race in a a heads up class (Ultra street) with a 30year old dinasour cyl head big block...LOL.

I don't know anything about boost, but its a lot easier to get 600hp nitrous through a 540 or bigger engine than through a 440 (smallblock)
I thought in comp Eliminator which is heads Up Racing. Had quite a few small block Chryslers..
_________________________
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.39 8.52 159.

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#2620289 - 02/12/19 12:32 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
WHITEDART Online   laugh2
master

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 2644
Loc: bean town ....Ca
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By n20mstr
wheres all the FAST smallblock mopar heads up cars??

don't get me wrong, id rather have a smallblock because they are so much easier than a tractor size motor bigblock, all big and goofy...but I just don't see it?? Meanwhile small block chevy and ford are right there....Again must be the R&D going into the more popular engines. Meanwhile im trying to race in a a heads up class (Ultra street) with a 30year old dinasour cyl head big block...LOL.

I don't know anything about boost, but its a lot easier to get 600hp nitrous through a 540 or bigger engine than through a 440 (smallblock)
I thought in comp Eliminator which is heads Up Racing. Had quite a few small block Chryslers..
oh and I know of one small block mopar on the West Coast that went to the semifinals . In Ultra a few times in the nmca west Series..
_________________________
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.39 8.52 159.

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#2620293 - 02/12/19 12:52 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
WHITEDART Online   laugh2
master

Registered: 10/06/11
Posts: 2644
Loc: bean town ....Ca
Robs . Late model Challenger is a beast in 275 Pro with a 3 gen Hemi..


Edited by WHITEDART (02/12/19 01:05 PM)
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In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.39 8.52 159.

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#2620313 - 02/12/19 01:47 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By n20mstr
wheres all the FAST smallblock mopar heads up cars??

don't get me wrong, id rather have a smallblock because they are so much easier than a tractor size motor bigblock, all big and goofy...but I just don't see it?? Meanwhile small block chevy and ford are right there....Again must be the R&D going into the more popular engines. Meanwhile im trying to race in a a heads up class (Ultra street) with a 30year old dinasour cyl head big block...LOL.

I don't know anything about boost, but its a lot easier to get 600hp nitrous through a 540 or bigger engine than through a 440 (smallblock)
I thought in comp Eliminator which is heads Up Racing. Had quite a few small block Chryslers..
oh and I know of one small block mopar on the West Coast that went to the semifinals . In Ultra a few times in the nmca west Series..


COMP, honestly I don't care...lots of rules and hp/ci so big block small block not that defined? Rob Goss, yea your correct there !
But in Josh's race and in Ultra, X275, Grudge...where are they? Hey I like smallblocks myself, but im too broke and just took the "easy button" Big BLock with B1's, everyone keeps telling me how great of a combination it is...LOL
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#2620315 - 02/12/19 01:50 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
Originally Posted By n20mstr
wheres all the FAST smallblock mopar heads up cars??

don't get me wrong, id rather have a smallblock because they are so much easier than a tractor size motor bigblock, all big and goofy...but I just don't see it?? Meanwhile small block chevy and ford are right there....Again must be the R&D going into the more popular engines. Meanwhile im trying to race in a a heads up class (Ultra street) with a 30year old dinasour cyl head big block...LOL.

I don't know anything about boost, but its a lot easier to get 600hp nitrous through a 540 or bigger engine than through a 440 (smallblock)
I thought in comp Eliminator which is heads Up Racing. Had quite a few small block Chryslers..
oh and I know of one small block mopar on the West Coast that went to the semifinals . In Ultra a few times in the nmca west Series..


is it a 4.70, 4.80 car? 5 sec cars are first round losers at Cecil county monthly race. The front runners are 4.70 and even 60's. After first round its all pretty much 4 sec cars, A lot of small block Chevy and Fords, but no small block Chryslers
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....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....

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#2620325 - 02/12/19 02:06 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
scottb Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1418
Loc: New Smyrna Beach FL
Whitedart has be 5:30 on motor I’m sure he could run 4:7-4:8 on spray he and Brett have both those small block making some awesome power

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#2620332 - 02/12/19 02:16 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: scottb]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
Originally Posted By scottb
Whitedart has be 5:30 on motor I’m sure he could run 4:7-4:8 on spray he and Brett have both those small block making some awesome power


Do you really understand what your saying?? These guys are making awesome NA hp, BUT its not that easy to just bolt on a plate and pick up 6tenths in the 1/8 let alone carry the weight and run on the 275 tire that Ultra street requires.
Maybe I shouldn't comment on this topic because im looking at it only from my narrow minded view of heads up small tire race cars. AND in that im saying where are all the fast Mopars...There are none ! THE only fast small tire car so far we can name here is Rob Goss.AND yes its a smallblock, but its a gen 3 hemi, not the "smallblock" that I think the OP was referring to.
Small block cars, I can say the ones I see that are wicked fast, Leon, Bill May...and ??
even at that im sure imleaving people out that are fast, but what do you consider "fast" I ask that because this is moparts...LOL Fast to me is 4.XX and even that I don't think Bill or Leon have done.

Flame on ! !


Edited by n20mstr (02/12/19 02:18 PM)
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#2620339 - 02/12/19 02:22 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
n20mstr Offline
master

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3348
Loc: On the bumper
Originally Posted By WHITEDART
I had posted a video of my new best a few days ago..and in that thread someone mention small blocks are always faster than Big Blocks.. that comment has had me thinking for a few days. We no that small block wedge.. has tons of R&D because of NASCAR and Pro Stock truck.. I don't know that much about the big block Max effort wedge heads.. what is the real answer . The most power per cubic inch..


heres the original post....
my answer to this cube for cube, I would have to say..Smallblock will make the most HP per cube.



Edited by n20mstr (02/12/19 02:23 PM)
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#2620340 - 02/12/19 02:23 PM Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART]
scottb Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1418
Loc: New Smyrna Beach FL
We know there not going to throw a kit on the combob they have now but with some changes they could be close to what your saying

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