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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: dvw] #2619546
02/10/19 09:54 PM
02/10/19 09:54 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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Wasn't there like a B-1 cylinder head that was used in Pro Stock back in the day that could make some big horsepower on a wedge..


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619548
02/10/19 09:55 PM
02/10/19 09:55 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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Being a wedge (closed chamber, quench, parallel valves inclined at a small angle to the bore axis, just like the 1949 Cadillac and Oldsmobile) isn't the problem.
The LS makes the common observation that "engines are more successful as they approach hemi design" a far stretch - the hemi is, by the away, many decades older, Harley-Davidson since 1926. The iron Sportster and Chrysler 392 are remarkably similar (both 1957) and both to WW1 aircraft engines.
Kaase remarked years ago that the correct intake valve was the biggest one you could fit, and the exhaust valve gets whatever room is left.
"All big blocks have inadequate valve area" (Vizard).


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619552
02/10/19 10:02 PM
02/10/19 10:02 PM
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poughquag, NY
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I've been running big block mopar for all most 40 years the problem there's very little RD I think the hemi got all the Rd in the early years I worked a machine shop for 15 years I cut up more 906 and 915 heads to look at core shift my 67 gtx with 512 with steel heads went 12.20 and drove it every were B1s a good set flow 400 in the intake I ran B1s up to 5 years ago they haven't changed that much my 588 with B1s from best made 1050 hp and went 8.20 at 2800 pounds I now run a set of heavily port Indy 600-13 XXX head with the help of Mike Sanders Chuck from Best and Tod Goodwin these heads flow over 500 on the intake and 390 on the exhaust we are still learning this combo the motor has made well over 1200 hp and 900 ft pounds of torque we raised the in and the ex a 1/2 inch cost come into a factor I've been very lucky to get the help to keep racing Mr Sanders and Best Machine can't say enough

car photo's 266.jpgcar photo's 225.JPGcar photo's 268.jpg
Last edited by 440GTX; 02/10/19 10:10 PM.
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: 440GTX] #2619586
02/10/19 11:27 PM
02/10/19 11:27 PM
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Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact.
N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section


Alan Jones
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: LA360] #2619587
02/10/19 11:30 PM
02/10/19 11:30 PM
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Washington
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Originally Posted By LA360
On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact.
N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section




Put a B1 head on a 400 inch BB and it will kill any SB. Every. Single. Time.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619600
02/11/19 12:00 AM
02/11/19 12:00 AM
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Oregon
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Yeah I think Mazzolini had a 383 with B1 heads a few years back. 8500 rpm shift points or something crazy like that. I don't know what the power level was but I'm sure it was up there. A combination like that would be a good match for a big inch SB with killer heads. The inches are about the same and the head flow would probably be roughly the same. The big block has larger bore size and room for bigger valves so it might hold its own. Probably comes down to who is building the engine and who is paying the bills.

Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: madscientist] #2619601
02/11/19 12:00 AM
02/11/19 12:00 AM
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PA.
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If any of you small block guys are looking for any of these beasts just go on Facebook. Seems to be a fad going on now to have someone build you one, dyno it, and sell it. Take your pick and bolt it in. Lol


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: madscientist] #2619603
02/11/19 12:07 AM
02/11/19 12:07 AM
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bean town ....Ca
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By LA360
On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact.
N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section




Put a B1 head on a 400 inch BB and it will kill any SB. Every. Single. Time.
. This is an interesting idea how short could you get a deck on a big block.. and would the head work on this short of a stroke motor


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: AndyF] #2619647
02/11/19 01:43 AM
02/11/19 01:43 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Yeah I think Mazzolini had a 383 with B1 heads a few years back. 8500 rpm shift points or something crazy like that. I don't know what the power level was but I'm sure it was up there. A combination like that would be a good match for a big inch SB with killer heads. The inches are about the same and the head flow would probably be roughly the same. The big block has larger bore size and room for bigger valves so it might hold its own. Probably comes down to who is building the engine and who is paying the bills.

Mazolini first 417 C.I. B1 motor was bought from Koffels which had been in there Comp eliminator car, it was a KB block with 4.5 bore and a stroke short enough to make that C.I.. He put in his 1964 Savoy SS car to make it into a SS/BM, he would shift it right at 8600 RPM, if he miss the shift by 150 RPM it would pull one or more of the 5/16 bolts that held the T&D rocker stands out whiney
His second motor had a set of B1-MC heads on it and it was smaller, 411 C.I. work I think he still has that motor shruggy
Short stroke, large bore, big heads up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619649
02/11/19 01:48 AM
02/11/19 01:48 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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The big block has larger bore size and room for bigger valves so it might hold its own

This^^^


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: polyspheric] #2619677
02/11/19 06:02 AM
02/11/19 06:02 AM
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Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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In theory this may be true, but a B1 headed 400 would be challenging getting the valvetrain to live past 10K RPM

Finding a block would be a challenge these days I'd think as well. On paper you'd be right.

Deck height would want to be 9" or there abouts.

It's not a combo that hasn't really made its place in Super Stock or Comp, the destroked Hemi 99 engines in Comp have seemed to be replaced by the P5 stuff


Alan Jones
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619780
02/11/19 01:48 PM
02/11/19 01:48 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Thanks Clinton!! Your doing all the R&D to make a reasonably price big HP big block,Sold by BEST!!!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: Cab_Burge] #2619791
02/11/19 02:07 PM
02/11/19 02:07 PM
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Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Mazolini first 417 C.I. B1 motor was bought from Koffels which had been in there Comp eliminator car, it was a KB block with 4.5 bore and a stroke short enough to make that C.I.. He put in his 1964 Savoy SS car to make it into a SS/BM, he would shift it right at 8600 RPM, if he miss the shift by 150 RPM it would pull one or more of the 5/16 bolts that held the T&D rocker stands out whiney
His second motor had a set of B1-MC heads on it and it was smaller, 411 C.I. work I think he still has that motor shruggy
Short stroke, large bore, big heads up
An impressive combination for sure. However if it was such a great engine why is Bob or one of his group running it anymore?

Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: 340Cuda] #2619834
02/11/19 03:23 PM
02/11/19 03:23 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I think the first one got sold to a friend( plumber?) of Bobs who may still be racing it.
He still has the other one with the M.C heads, he had a lot of trouble with those head killing the rear exhaust valve springs in one run due to poor coolant circulation work shruggy
I have a set of M.C. also, I hope mine don't do that on a Koleno block luck


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619842
02/11/19 03:42 PM
02/11/19 03:42 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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A 400" big bore, short stroke, 10,000RPM big block is a pretty exotic piece for most people reading this.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: CMcAllister] #2619855
02/11/19 04:03 PM
02/11/19 04:03 PM
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Washington
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
A 400" big bore, short stroke, 10,000RPM big block is a pretty exotic piece for most people reading this.


A single 4 and correctly sized heads won't need 10k. 8500-8800 is a pedestrian RPM today and that should be all it would need. Also, cam timing would be relatively short. That's also a bonus. The better the head, the less timing you need to get the same RPM.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619870
02/11/19 04:22 PM
02/11/19 04:22 PM
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Carson City, Nevada
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O.K. here is my opinion on the subject.

Take a 440CID Small Block with W8 heads and put it up against a PSO B-1 Headed 440CID Big Block

Combos would look like this

Small Block

4.00" Stroke
4.185" Bore
9.580" Deck Height

Big Block

3.40" Stroke
4.530" Bore
9.980" Deck Height

If you run a KB block on the Big Block you will even have a lighter engine than the Small Block

Pocket book would feel about the same....empty

I believe the Big Block would out power the small Block by at least 200HP

Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619871
02/11/19 04:22 PM
02/11/19 04:22 PM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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I agree - if the heads work, the cam can be less violent.
Reasons why down-sizing an engine by stroke reduction doesn't always track: it throws anything you learned w/r/t chamber shape, dome shape, spark advance, plenum size, and especially cam events over the cliff. You're walking on new thin ice.
A traditional hemi (deep section, they're not actually a "half sphere") is a liability without enough displacement to keep the piston shape out of the chamber during overlap. Back in the day, de-stroking a 354 or 331 to get 300" (Bonneville etc.) failed in favor of DeSoto engines with smaller chambers and longer strokes.


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Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: polyspheric] #2619914
02/11/19 06:00 PM
02/11/19 06:00 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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There was a big block wedge that ran N/A 10.5 Out here on the west coast it was owned by Chris.i thank it ran low 8s..not sure how big it was. maybe some one would remember..


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Small Block vs Big Block [Re: WHITEDART] #2619984
02/11/19 08:39 PM
02/11/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.


1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
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