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Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: dangina] #2609419
01/20/19 05:50 PM
01/20/19 05:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
I would suggest a HT racing fluid, like: https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeFluid/BrakeFluid

it's a lot less expensive then most alternatives for brake fade.
You have many similar choices available.
Ducting Drums properly is a lot of work/modification, almost easier to install discs (you need to also get cooling air inside the drum), and if you run normal sized & TW range tires, on a heavy car (RR is in the heavy range IMO)), you will be very close to brake fade. It's not a lot of fun or learnful to drive at the edge of brake fade.

Best book I have come across on this topic:

https://www.amazon.com/Think-Fast-Racers-Why-Winning/dp/1451558759

It's more about the approach and why, not what.

Best very important concept stressed:

"everything effects everything else"


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: Skeptic] #2610214
01/22/19 12:54 AM
01/22/19 12:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Thanks for the brake fluid follow up.. I know we just won't be able to get discs on it for this season - which is only one track day, June 22nd at NYST. We'll get through it...

I'll also look at that racing book - I def advanced my skills with the lessons taught in Skip Barbers 'Going Faster', but nothing wrong with more info.

Originally Posted By Skeptic
Good to see you've gotten some more feedback, I'll third Andy F's book, I've got two copies myself, I misplaced the first one and bought a replacement, it's that valuable. I'm not even a B body guy, but most everything still applies. I'll also say track time is good time, it's easy to build-or buy, a car that is far more capable that the driver. wave


Just received my copies from Amazon (wanted to buy directly, but got redirected).. starting to read tonight..

Best,
- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2610639
01/22/19 08:28 PM
01/22/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
top fuel
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Just be careful the wet boiling points are appropriate for the situation. Wilwood's HT 570 wet BP is better than it was 10 years ago. Prestone doesn't have theirs posted on that particular link but I'm sure it can be looked up.
If the fluid will be changed before any outing,then wet BP isn't nearly as important as it is for vehicles where it may only be changed once a season or less. The Valvoline I mentioned early has a dry BP of 527 F - far above the minumum required but much lower than the Wilwoods. But the Valvoline's wet BP is higher.

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: Mattax] #2610680
01/22/19 09:23 PM
01/22/19 09:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
All very true, but anybody serious about track time, does fresh BF every weekend outing or at first sign of fade as the fluid likely has already been cooked. Wet boiling point in this application is irrelevant IMO.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: CKessel] #2611816
01/24/19 09:49 PM
01/24/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts Offline
super stock
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Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By CKessel
And buy Andy F's book on updating the b-body suspensions. Lots of great info in there.

I'll second this.

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: AndyF] #2612128
01/25/19 04:27 PM
01/25/19 04:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
raleigh, NC
M
mcmopar1 Offline
member
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raleigh, NC
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By CKessel
And buy Andy F's book on updating the b-body suspensions. Lots of great info in there.


That is what I was thinking. Why would I type a reply when I already typed a whole book?


Andy,

Do you answer messages? I was looking for your extended water neck with a port months ago, tried to reach you through this site and e-mail to no avail. Luckily they are on your site now!

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2614701
01/30/19 06:55 PM
01/30/19 06:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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AlexP Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
I've got the following on my 68 RR.

6.1 Hemi with a cam and ported heads 475 crank hp easy
Megasquirt 3 EFI gold box
23 spline 833
2.94 8.75"
Battery in back
Mopar 1.22" t bars
Hotchkis 2255 sways
Mopar XHD leaf springs (both RH)
Hotchkis shackles
Mancini Lowering spring front hangers
braced stock lower control arms
RMS strut rods
Koni Red shocks
Firm Feel stage 3 steering box
Stock UCA with problem solver bushings
14.25" LX rotor with a viper caliper
18x9 Mustang wheels with 6.18 BS and a 1" spacer for 5.18" BS
275/35-18 tires all around.

I'm going to get a set of 18x9 5" BS torq thrusts to get rid of spacers.

The work is in progress. I still need a set of wheels without an adapter and a rear disc kit, plus I need to install the sway bars. The car is getting a bunch of rust repair from the vinyl top issues, but it was destined to be a grand touring and amateur road course car. I've also got Corbeau buckets for the seats and I'm going to 3 point belts.



My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2617234
02/05/19 11:24 AM
02/05/19 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Thanks fr sharing your 68 RR build Alex, looks great and there’s lots of information for my brother to reference and consider.

And a huge Thanks to AndyF, your B-Body Perf Upgrades book is absolutely as helpful as you guys all said it would be. Also gotta add it’s really well written, which can be lacking in many similar books. A lot of the advice also applies to cars across the board, with the added bonus of featuring a bunch of Moparts friends’ cars .. What’s not to love?
Well done.

Cheers,
- Art

Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 02/05/19 12:08 PM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2670606
06/27/19 10:48 AM
06/27/19 10:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Guys,
Thanks for your input.. We had a perfect track day June 22nd, sunny, dry and 78F... my brother did great and dropped his laptime from 2:08.10 to 2:04.55.

He arrived with his whole family the day before track day.
With the limited time we stuck to the very basics:
- He had ordered a set of Firestone Firehawks, 235/55-17's mounted and balanced on mag rims, got them delivered to my house, mounted them and test drove.
- Flushed old DOT3 brake fluid, replaced with new Ate Typ 200 DOT4.
- Checked alignment, it was adequate - no time to tweak.
- Checked all the systems we could; fuel system, carb adjust, brake drums & liners.
- Monitored tire temps for optimum pressure.

Then we reviewed strategy;
- GOALS: Conserve brakes, use HP and grip to advantage.
- Therefore: Manage the approaches to turns such that he carries momentum, minimizes braking, and then maximizes exit speed.

I rode with him one session halfway through the day.. the Firehawks appear to have fantastic breakaway characteristics, as far as I could tell from the passenger seat: Very gentle onset of throttle-induced oversteer and the transition *out* of the throttle induced oversteer was smooth as silk...

Showing a lot of lean here, but we are very happy with the improvement with so little effort... He made it through the entire day in one piece, had one spin but stayed on track, nothing broke, all good.
Thanks again..
- Art

IMG_2484.JPG
Last edited by 67SATisfaction; 06/27/19 10:57 AM.

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2672440
07/01/19 10:59 AM
07/01/19 10:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
top fuel
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up
awsome!

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2672518
07/01/19 12:36 PM
07/01/19 12:36 PM
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Posts: 2,094
central texas
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krautrock Offline
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central texas
so the only thing replaced was the wheels and tires?

no new shocks?
any idea what torsion bars are in the car?

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: krautrock] #2672900
07/02/19 09:04 AM
07/02/19 09:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
master
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master
T

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Pikes Peak Country
Said it still had all the stock stuff under it, so t-bars of .88 and a sway bar of .93

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2675653
07/08/19 05:44 PM
07/08/19 05:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
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Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A set of 235/55-17 tires is going to be a huge improvement over the stock rubber on one of those cars. Once you're ready to step it up a notch it will be fairly easy to lower the car an inch the add new springs, torsion bars and good shocks. For about $1000 investment you'll have a car that rides a little firmer and goes around corners a whole lot better.

Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: AndyF] #2699396
09/20/19 10:49 PM
09/20/19 10:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
Thanks guys,
Sorry took me a while to come back and check here - Yeah - his RR is all stock, so whatever it got from the factory is what he's running it on..

Thanks for the pointers for further improvements next time Andy. I bought us both a copy of your book, so we have that going for us.

..My brother is not the most observant Mopar owner.. He had some bad tire wobble on his drive to my house, some 3 hours of highway driving. He felt he needed the tire balanced and an alignment. I took one look at his tires and nearly crapped. He was on old bias-ply tires, must 've had some strands broken, worst wear pattern I've ever seen.. (Photo attached). ..and he had his whole family with him for the trip, 4 kids and wife. Crazy.

..He is back on new street tires, storing his track tires at my house, so I'll try them out on our '65 Satellite in the spring.
..Of course this kind of driving transfers a lot more stress to the frame, and a post-trackday inspection I found two cracks in his K-frame, at welds where the folded steel flanges return around the front bolts.

The saga continues.

Zzlv7oONQ9OWPxo1nfzKcw.jpgS9S4MMPBRHKHRopLAapUjg.jpg

65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: AndyF] #2699398
09/20/19 10:53 PM
09/20/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
One question I have is about the rear upper shock mounts:

How much stress/racing can that area tolerate before you gotta strengthen that mounting bracket?
I mean, it looks pretty weak - just stamped and folded sheetmetal spot welded to the underside of the trunk panel?

- Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Starting w stock '68 RoadRunner - First steps? what shocks? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #2700054
09/23/19 09:15 AM
09/23/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 270
Mountain View, CA
6
68rrunner Offline
enthusiast
68rrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 270
Mountain View, CA
Originally Posted by 67SATisfaction
One question I have is about the rear upper shock mounts:

How much stress/racing can that area tolerate before you gotta strengthen that mounting bracket?
I mean, it looks pretty weak - just stamped and folded sheetmetal spot welded to the underside of the trunk panel?

- Art


Not a lot. We've blown out the holes in a couple of cars and torn one cross member completely out of a car once. Easy fix is to weld the ends better and then make some spacers and bolt the center rib to the trunk pan. You can also reinforce the bolt hols a bit by tacking in some williams washers.

Last edited by 68rrunner; 09/23/19 09:15 AM.
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