Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2612158
01/25/19 05:55 PM
01/25/19 05:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,663 Wichita
GY3
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Wichita
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It really does make for a great combo.
One of our local guys just picked up his 505 from the builder in Salina, KS that does the engines for Farmtruck. He said he's done a couple of these recently.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2612161
01/25/19 05:59 PM
01/25/19 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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Sounds like a lot of fast Mopar's hitting the streets soon.
I can still remember those Muscle Motors ads 20 years ago when the 493 stroker kit was almost 3 grand, and the only head options were ported stock stuff, or Indys. We've come a long way!
2 kids and a dog
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2612325
01/25/19 11:07 PM
01/25/19 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 326 Alberta
Wookie316
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Alberta
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So is there any advantage or disadvantages between the 440/505 or the 400/512 I personally run? Curious is all.
1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Wookie316]
#2612432
01/26/19 03:52 AM
01/26/19 03:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989 Oregon
AndyF
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So is there any advantage or disadvantages between the 440/505 or the 400/512 I personally run? Curious is all. The RB block has better choices for main bearings and intake manifolds. Also, a lot of headers are designed for RB blocks rather than B blocks. I've also run into various clearance issues with B blocks that the RB blocks don't have. It just seems like the aftermarket is more up to speed on RB parts than B parts so life is a little easier when you build a 440 based engine.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2612626
01/26/19 04:02 PM
01/26/19 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,410 Weatherford, Texas
RapidusMaximus
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Weatherford, Texas
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So is there any advantage or disadvantages between the 440/505 or the 400/512 I personally run? Curious is all. The RB block has better choices for main bearings and intake manifolds. Also, a lot of headers are designed for RB blocks rather than B blocks. I've also run into various clearance issues with B blocks that the RB blocks don't have. It just seems like the aftermarket is more up to speed on RB parts than B parts so life is a little easier when you build a 440 based engine. This a somewhat surprising twist to me, for years most of the high HP non aftermarket BB guys have leaned to the 400 block for strength and longevity desires...
1968 Plymouth GTX 1974 Dodge P/U Long Bed Stepside 318 2019 Ram 2500 6.4, auto, 4WD
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2624158
02/21/19 01:06 PM
02/21/19 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094 central texas
krautrock
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I have a 1973 400 block (630) that I want to build to 550-600hp for the dragstrip only. So far I was thinking after all my research, is to stroke the engine with Trickflow 240 heads. I read AndyF's Max-Performance book and was thinking 451 or 470...or maybe go right for the 512???
Can you more experienced racers give some suggestions of a build that might work for me? It looks like my budget is about $10K
Below is an idea for a build...
- 440source stroker kit with 2.200 BBC journals - compression at 11-1 or 12-1 (high octane pump gas or 110 race gas) - 590 mopar performance flat tappet cam - Trickflow 240 heads - single plane intake with holley carb I'm thinking about the same thing here except I have a 440 crank already cut for a low deck so...451 is the deal for me though a 470 is still tempting. I thought about the 512 but in a low deck I don't think I like the short rod needed. Also, with a 512 I'd probably run the 270cc heads over the 240. Where do you want the power band? Seems one of the biggest changes with going with a big stroker is what rpm you will spin the motor.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2624195
02/21/19 02:06 PM
02/21/19 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989 Oregon
AndyF
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I have a 1973 400 block (630) that I want to build to 550-600hp for the dragstrip only. So far I was thinking after all my research, is to stroke the engine with Trickflow 240 heads. I read AndyF's Max-Performance book and was thinking 451 or 470...or maybe go right for the 512???
Can you more experienced racers give some suggestions of a build that might work for me? It looks like my budget is about $10K
Below is an idea for a build...
- 440source stroker kit with 2.200 BBC journals - compression at 11-1 or 12-1 (high octane pump gas or 110 race gas) - 590 mopar performance flat tappet cam - Trickflow 240 heads - single plane intake with holley carb Your plan will work. A 470 with 11:1 compression ratio, Trick Flow 240 heads, Trick Flow intake and a big cam will easily make 600 hp. I've never tested the 590 cam with the 240 heads and I probably wouldn't use the 590 cam myself, but I'm sure it will work in a drag race engine. The idle quality might really suck but I bet it will pull hard from 3500 rpm on up. On an engine like that I'd use a Holley Sniper rather than a carb but that is up to you. One way to pick up some power is to buy the Trick Flow intake manifold from Hughes Engines with the deep port match. Just order ahead of time since it takes them a few weeks to do the port work. This is the easiest way to get some intake manifold work done since most guys don't have the proper tools for intake manifold porting.
Last edited by AndyF; 02/21/19 02:09 PM.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: krautrock]
#2624197
02/21/19 02:13 PM
02/21/19 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989 Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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I have a 1973 400 block (630) that I want to build to 550-600hp for the dragstrip only. So far I was thinking after all my research, is to stroke the engine with Trickflow 240 heads. I read AndyF's Max-Performance book and was thinking 451 or 470...or maybe go right for the 512???
Can you more experienced racers give some suggestions of a build that might work for me? It looks like my budget is about $10K
Below is an idea for a build...
- 440source stroker kit with 2.200 BBC journals - compression at 11-1 or 12-1 (high octane pump gas or 110 race gas) - 590 mopar performance flat tappet cam - Trickflow 240 heads - single plane intake with holley carb I'm thinking about the same thing here except I have a 440 crank already cut for a low deck so...451 is the deal for me though a 470 is still tempting. I thought about the 512 but in a low deck I don't think I like the short rod needed. Also, with a 512 I'd probably run the 270cc heads over the 240. Where do you want the power band? Seems one of the biggest changes with going with a big stroker is what rpm you will spin the motor. Yes, figuring out how you are going to use the engine is the most important step in engine building. A lot of people put race parts on street engines and then they aren't happy with the result. I've made that mistake a lot of times myself. Street engines need to be built differently than race engines. A lot of guys posting in the race section are actually building street engines. Nothing wrong with building a street engine to work on the street. Just take the ego out of it and don't worry about the fact that your cam and carb are smaller than what someone else used on a race engine.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: merpar]
#2624202
02/21/19 02:22 PM
02/21/19 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 549 CT
340KID
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 549
CT
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All the low deck motors I have built have the B small mains. like Andyf said finding bearings is a pain. If I were building another I would go with the RB mains. Have the mains bored out. Then you can get bearings with the proper clearance. Mopar performance cams are antique specs. I would recommend an Isky mega flat tappet or talk to Hughes Engines. we have a 400/511 low deck B1 engine at engine shop now,they will be putting in the BCR cap and girdle system in, I should have them bore and hone for larger RB bearings it seems. This is our first low deck build, didn't realize the low availability of main bearing choices for a 400 .
Last edited by 340KID; 02/21/19 02:23 PM.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2624203
02/21/19 02:23 PM
02/21/19 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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Chicago, IL
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I have a 1973 400 block (630) that I want to build to 550-600hp for the dragstrip only. So far I was thinking after all my research, is to stroke the engine with Trickflow 240 heads. I read AndyF's Max-Performance book and was thinking 451 or 470...or maybe go right for the 512???
Can you more experienced racers give some suggestions of a build that might work for me? It looks like my budget is about $10K
Below is an idea for a build...
- 440source stroker kit with 2.200 BBC journals - compression at 11-1 or 12-1 (high octane pump gas or 110 race gas) - 590 mopar performance flat tappet cam - Trickflow 240 heads - single plane intake with holley carb If you are purchasing a rotating assembly, no reason not to do the 505. And if 600 hp is your target, you can get there blindfolded with 505, trick flow heads and the right solid lifter cam, on pump gas. The MP 590 cam is fine, but there might be a better grind for your combo. Check with Dwayne Porter (fast68plymouth), he is a comp cams dealer and can help you choose the right cam.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2624221
02/21/19 02:58 PM
02/21/19 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,491 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I’d build a 511, use the TF 270 heads and a mild roller cam.
It’s not likely you’re going to decide you want less power at some point in the future...... might as well get the extra cubes up front while they’re free.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2624302
02/21/19 05:33 PM
02/21/19 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094 central texas
krautrock
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i think the problem is the main bearings selection, not the rod bearings. a 2.2 journal is the rod journal.
while we are on the subject, any of you guys think the PP240 head is too much head for a healthy 451 low deck street motor with maybe a cam like the MP 284 solid.
Last edited by krautrock; 02/21/19 05:34 PM.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2624608
02/22/19 10:40 AM
02/22/19 10:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 76 MASSACHUSETTS
Chip
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OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read. I see Trickflow has a cam for racing... https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-61602003 Anyone tried this Cam?
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2624618
02/22/19 11:22 AM
02/22/19 11:22 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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The 505 we are currently building is going together very easy. It is the 440 source kit with the light weight crank option and rods with the ARP2000 bolts. All the clearances were good, did not have to miss with fitting the rod pin ends, 0.0025" rod clearances, 0.003" main clearances. crank end plat in spec, rod side clearances in spec, crank and rods clear the block fine, closest the rod comes is to the oil puckup tube that has the large 1/2" tube adaptor on the pickup tube. The cam bearings even went in with no problem or having to clearance them. So far only thing not totally happy with was the balance job. Although it is fine for the mild combination we are building, the weight difference on the rod big ends varied by about 3-grams.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2624705
02/22/19 02:34 PM
02/22/19 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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S.E. Michigan
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OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read.
That's what I have in mine, full groove mains in this 451. I've had it apart once for inspection since the initial build, they're holding up. No worries, you can run those P bearings. I usually use 15w40 or 20w50 oil, 65+ psi hot, but I'm thinking I might run 30 weight this spring, maybe synthetic, and see how I like it. I bet it will be fine. Can't help on the cam (mines a solid roller).
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: AndyF]
#2624783
02/22/19 05:16 PM
02/22/19 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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Chip, I am running RPM heads that I blended slightly at home (by eye/common sense...I don't have a flow bench), and a .630 gross lift Custom Comp that was ordered from Dwayne Porter.
Off the shelf bearing selection is kind of limiting. at least 440 source has chamfered mains available.
Old ('70s) publications used to discuss various ways builders would massage the bearings for a desired end result. I've never done anything like that myself, but it is funny how it is almost a taboo topic these days.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2624957
02/23/19 12:53 AM
02/23/19 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031 Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave
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Mt Morris Michigan
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I used the Clevite ms876p full groove main bearings in my 511 with Molnar crank. I did not chamfer them. Plain forgot too, but had .008 or .009 crank end play anyway. Didn't have any binding of any kind. Beat on it last 2 seasons and so far all is well with 80psi cold oil pressure and 65 hot at idle in drive. I use Amsoil 20/50 Dominator with .003" main bearing clearance. Also, just remember coating those bearings closes up some oil clearance.
Last edited by mopar dave; 02/23/19 12:55 AM.
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2625036
02/23/19 11:47 AM
02/23/19 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
If the crank is cut with the 2.200 BBC journals...is there a better selection of main bearings? 440source kits come with bearings.
So I will look at different Cam options too. The MP 590 is as old as the TRW 2293's that came outta my 383...
Dwayne...i hear you about wanting more power in the future...but I can build for that then. Winters are long here as you know:) I will have to look into your services. The calender moves much quicker than you think! Plan for that extra power as much as you can now so you don't have to duplicate purchases or worse, re engineer a large part of your build. Stick with the small main bearings.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: The 505 must be getting popular
[Re: Chip]
#2625251
02/23/19 10:17 PM
02/23/19 10:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082 St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
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OK...i see that only Clevite 77 P-Series Main Bearings are available for the low deck engine. At 600hp, this should not be an issue according to what I have read. I see Trickflow has a cam for racing... https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-61602003 Anyone tried this Cam? It is probably O.K. in a generic sort of way , but TrickFlow is known for cylinder heads. I'd call a cam grinder and get exactly what you want. There are several I have read about on these pages. I called Bullet and really like what they came up with for me. You will need specific numbers......head flow at the top of that list. But build info......compression , intake , trans , gears etc. Intended use. Mine is not an all out effort , and I made some compromises for street manners.....so this isn't just for hard core race engines. What they suggest will not be reinventing the wheel , but more like refining it specifically to your motor / car.
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