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Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2617199
02/05/19 06:56 AM
02/05/19 06:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,506
AZ
Mike P Offline
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AZ
".....He doesn't like the feel it gives him, and he is concerned about possible future problems. If he could find a good alternative to that original power steering, he would change it out in a heart beat, but at this point, a clip is about the only option we can find. He really would rather not take the car down to do that......"

Boy does that sound familiar!!

The 57 PS gears were one year only and actually had worse road feel than the 58-62 units (which are a bolt in replacement).

When I built my 57 Coronet many years ago I used a Saginaw PS pump with a 58 PS gear. The Saginaw pump was rated at a higher pressure than the original Mopar pump which gave the car a "twitchy" feel especially at speed (it's more aggravated if the steering gear has any slop in it). Basically it's the same complaint a lot of the Hot Rod guys have when using a Saginaw pump on a Mustang II PS rack.


Not sure what pump Genes' son is using but it could be the same situation I had.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Mike P] #2617281
02/05/19 01:25 PM
02/05/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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north of coder
i don't know if this applies or not, but at one time, someone had an adjustable power steering pressure valve that was an addon to reduce the pressure of the saginaw pump. maybe something to look into gene ? shruggy
provided, of course, that item is still being made.
beer

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Mike P] #2617298
02/05/19 01:53 PM
02/05/19 01:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 236
British Columbia, Canada
Old Ray Offline
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British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By Mike P
Basically it's the same complaint a lot of the Hot Rod guys have when using a Saginaw pump on a Mustang II PS rack.


Originally Posted By moparx
but at one time, someone had an adjustable power steering pressure valve that was an addon to reduce the pressure of the saginaw pump.


From a old and FAILING memory, there was a kit for the sag pump that was just a couple of cooper spacer washers that went underneath the outlet valve (?). I tried a steel washer and it worked on my '37 ford with big block gm / MII.

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Old Ray] #2617301
02/05/19 01:59 PM
02/05/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Offline
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ray, "eranbooger" did a story in mopar action magazine about that mod. i tried it on my charger and it worked great !
unfortunately, my old mind can't remember how long ago that was.
beer

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2617307
02/05/19 02:18 PM
02/05/19 02:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,506
AZ
Mike P Offline
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AZ

Looks like we've managed to pretty much hijack this thread.....my apologies to the OP.

I have no idea what the 5.7 in the station wagon uses for a PS pump. I kind of suspect they may be using the one that came with the motor, whatever that is.

As far as the Saginaw pump there were a few way that people used to reduce the pressure and as far as I know most are still available including the shims, a new relief valve and even pumps rebuilt to drop the pressure.

I heard recently that a Saginaw pump speced for a late 60s-early 80s Corvette operates at a lower pressure. That makes sense as those power steering systems used a slave cylinder and draglink mounted control valve.

If that is in fact true I would be careful where I bought the pump from as I suspect from a rebuilders standpoint a Saginaw pump is a Saginaw pump and chances are you would end up with the higher pressure pump.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2617309
02/05/19 02:31 PM
02/05/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 392
Doniphan, Nebraska
Lmopar69 Offline OP
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Doniphan, Nebraska
No apologies needed. The more people talk, comment and post pictures of anything, the more ideas we all get!

Im back home in my shop finally for two weeks. I work 2 weeks on 2 weeks off in another state.

Comment to one of the posts... Im very guilty of "using what I have" instead of using "what will work best or be easiest". I cant see a reason to waste good parts that will do what I want them to do. So, with that in mind, once I get my 70 Challenger off the lift, I'll bring the van inside, lift it up and see if there is a way to make it work and still be safe and usable.

I'll get some pictures and maybe with everyones input we will find a way to utilize a bunch of stuff off this silly van/camper.

Laine.


NRCA Member
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2617555
02/05/19 11:34 PM
02/05/19 11:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,486
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
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Freeport IL USA
To follow up on my son's wagon, He is using the pump from a 97 Ram. We made brackets so it could be mounted on the modern Hemi (yes, the pumps and brackets are different between a 5.9 and a 5.7).
This pump has been on the car for about 3 years. He did something to reduce the pump pressure so it matches the pressure output of the original 57 pump. I think he used a bypass regulator that allows you to adjust the pressure. What he doesn't like is the feedback the original power steering for this wagon gives him, even with sway bars and a completely rebuild suspension.

Lmopar69, I will be looking forward to your findings with the van chassis. Gene

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2617611
02/06/19 01:32 AM
02/06/19 01:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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Canada
I never knew the 57 steering boxes were different. I drove two of them back in the 80s and regularly at rather high rates of speed..... I liked the way they drove. They were poly V8 power steering cars, both of them.


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2619227
02/09/19 11:20 PM
02/09/19 11:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,070
Ohio
C
C_B5 Offline
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Posts: 1,070
Ohio
I’ve been reasearching alternatives to the factory power steeeing unit on the 1957-61 models as well. Another way that’s popular with the hot rod builders is using an electric power steering unit.

The electric power steering setup replaces the factory parts and doesn’t take up space which can be critical when swapping in a different engine.

I haven’t made the decision to pursue this, so if anyone has experience that they could share it would be appreciated

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2619301
02/10/19 10:08 AM
02/10/19 10:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,506
AZ
Mike P Offline
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AZ
When I got serious about doing a PS conversion on my 57 last year my first plan was to go with an electric conversion. I was looking at the units that splice into the steering shaft under the dash. I still think it's feasible but not for my car.

The show stopper is my Plymouth is a 4 speed. There was just no room under the dash for the electric motor without removing the clutch pedal (converting to an automatic).

Just my experience (luck ? ) all 5 of the original 57-58 manual steering boxes I dealt with over the years were worn to the point where they should have been sent out to be rebuilt. I got a quote from Bench Works in Phoenix last summer and that would have added another $350 (plus shipping) to the project. If I were still considering doing an electric conversion I would probably also look at converting to the manual version of the Ford Steering gear I'll be using on my 57.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Lmopar69] #2619327
02/10/19 12:31 PM
02/10/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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If your steering box is worn to the point of needing a rebuild adding the inline electric power steering booster will do nothing to fix that. It will still be a sloppy, vague feeling mess that is a bit easier to turn now.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Supercuda] #2643841
04/10/19 08:50 PM
04/10/19 08:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,042
colorado
S
savoy64 Offline
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colorado
check out K member under a C body----it is like a big square with a cross member---C body share suspension and brake components with 1/2 trucks and vans.....

Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: savoy64] #2646286
04/17/19 11:45 PM
04/17/19 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,802
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar Offline
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
SattyNoCar  Offline
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Between Houston & Galveston TX
Originally Posted by savoy64
check out K member under a C body----it is like a big square with a cross member---C body share suspension and brake components with 1/2 trucks and vans.....


What C-bodies have K frames? All the ones I've seen have stub frames.


John

The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: SattyNoCar] #2646387
04/18/19 09:23 AM
04/18/19 09:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Originally Posted by Satilite73
Originally Posted by savoy64
check out K member under a C body----it is like a big square with a cross member---C body share suspension and brake components with 1/2 trucks and vans.....


What C-bodies have K frames? All the ones I've seen have stub frames.


If you read past the K frame statement you'll see that what he is describing is the stub frame. But nitpick away.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: Supercuda] #2646395
04/18/19 09:47 AM
04/18/19 09:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,802
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar Offline
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Posts: 16,802
Between Houston & Galveston TX

Not being nit-picky, just trying to clarify what he's talking about as to prevent confusion.

We all have brain farts where we can't think of the name of a part.


John

The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
Re: Suspension swap? Why not? [Re: SattyNoCar] #2654929
05/13/19 11:14 AM
05/13/19 11:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 90
Peoples Republic of Oregon
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Peoples Republic of Oregon
..yup...words have meanings......


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