Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606077
01/13/19 07:54 PM
01/13/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 953
Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline OP
super stock
PurpleBeeper  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 953
Chicago
BSB67 --> I did have the #8 intake valve on the base circle of the cam when I adjusted the valve lash to 3/4-turn in (hydraulic). When I pulled one valve cover, I noticed that all the adjuster screws, with the lock nuts, stuck out from the rocker arm "roughly" the same amount....all the same...except #8 intake, which is screwed out very noticeably further than all the other 7 rocker arms on that side of the motor. The lock nut was tight.

I'm "hoping" I just somehow forgot to set the valve lash on that valve. I have a sound coming from both valve covers & have only pulled off one side (so far). On the passenger side, the #8 intake was very obviously adjusted differently.....like it had a longer push rod.....which is why I pulled that push rod & the one next to it to check length. The adjustment screw is backed off 1/4" more than all the other screws. The push rod had not fallen out or anything.

I will update once I check out more in the valve gear.


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606083
01/13/19 08:04 PM
01/13/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
A long shot but, not all adjuster screws are the same length.

Has one been replaced and it’s just longer than the others?

On another subject...... if you’re running the P2806077 spring...... that might be my most disliked spring of all time.
Not enough on the seat, too much over the nose, and nowhere near enough travel to run the higher lift cams it’s recommended for.
I actually refuse to install them on customers heads when they send/bring them with their heads.
In fact, if someone called to order a cam from me, and told me they were going to run those springs........ I’d pass on the cam sale.
I’m sure much of the trouble MP head with the failing .620 cams was the result of people using those springs.

It’s a pretty high rate spring........ too high for any type of regular hyd cam and lifters imo.
I’m sure it’s giving those lifters a serious workout.

As to the question posed in the thread title......
The only time I’ve ever seen the plunger “stuck” in any position on a hyd lifter is if it’s basically seized in place.
Could this happen with the plunger at or near the top of its travel?
I don’t see why not.

Should be easy enough to determine, especially with those big springs.
Turn the motor over until that valve is fully open........ and leave it like that for a while(an hour, overnight, etc).
After a period of time, turn the motor over until the valve is fully closed...... then go just a bit further to ensure you’re on the base circle.
At the point, the spring load should have pushed some of the oil out of the lifter, and made it “soft”. So you should be able to grab the rocker arm and see if you can compress the lifter any.
If it’s still 100% rock hard with zero “give”....... it probably needs more scrutiny.

The “normal” scenario with hyd lifters these days is....... you rotate the motor to get the valve fully opened......... and you can just watch the spring load collapse the lifter.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2606122
01/13/19 09:14 PM
01/13/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
A long shot but, not all adjuster screws are the same length.

Has one been replaced and it’s just longer than the others?

On another subject...... if you’re running the P2806077 spring...... that might be my most disliked spring of all time.
Not enough on the seat, too much over the nose, and nowhere near enough travel to run the higher lift cams it’s recommended for.
I actually refuse to install them on customers heads when they send/bring them with their heads.
In fact, if someone called to order I cam from me, and told me they were going to run those springs........ I’d pass on the cam sale.
I’m sure much of the trouble MP head with the failing .620 cams was the result of people using those springs.

It’s a pretty high rate spring........ too high for any type of regular hyd cam and lifters imo.
I’m sure it’s giving those lifters a serious workout.

As to the question posed in the thread title......
The only time I’ve ever seen the plunger “stuck” in any position on a hyd lifter is if it’s basically seized in place.
Could this happen with the plunger at or near the top of its travel?
I don’t see why not.

Should be easy enough to determine, especially with those big springs.
Turn the motor over until that valve is fully open........ and leave it like that for a while(an hour, overnight, etc).
After a period of time, turn the motor over until the valve is fully closed...... then go just a bit further to ensure you’re on the base circle.
At the point, the spring load should have pushed some of the oil out of the lifter, and made it “soft”. So you should be able to grab the rocker arm and see if you can compress the lifter any.
If it’s still 100% rock hard with zero “give”....... it probably needs more scrutiny.

The “normal” scenario with hyd lifters these days is....... you rotate the motor to get the valve fully opened......... and you can just watch the spring load collapse the lifter.
I remember those '077 springs. used them ONCE! old chrome vanadium killers. they will break.

the newer adjusters that use the allen wrench are around .100" longer on the ball end vs the old screw driver slot adjusters.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606125
01/13/19 09:20 PM
01/13/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
Originally Posted By PurpleBeeper
Hey Lew, maybe I have the name wrong, but the springs are the very old Direct Connection dual springs that were listed for the smaller solid lifter cams & as "optional" on the old original Direct Connection purple shaft 292/509 hydraulic cam. This motor was built in 1985 & I have since changed the camshaft (fyi).


At one point I did replace two of the Isky ball/cup pushrods, which made me wonder if my replacements were accidentally the solid-lifter version (slightly longer vs. hydraulic pushrods)…..checked that & the pushrod matches the other ones.

It's just that this one adjustment screw is so much different than the others (visually). My only thought are:
a. I missed adjusting that rocker
b. That valve has a push rod too long (checked that, not it)
c. The lifter is stuck in the fully pumped up position
d. My rocker shaft is loose, so my valve lash adjustments are WAY off.


This all started tracking down valve gear noise. I double checked my rocker/valve cover clearance...no "witness marks" on valve cover baffles. I don't think I have any bent pushrods, but I will roll them all on a mirror just to be sure.

Any other thoughts?
can you post a pic of the adjusters? if those are the old dual (inner/outer/dampner) springs then i'm surprised they haven't killed the cam and tappets. the street hemi single spring binds up around 1.35", and IIRC the dampner binds up before the spring.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606132
01/13/19 09:31 PM
01/13/19 09:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
The valve will dictate where the normal final rocker position is. Certainly you would Have noticed if one valve was 3/8" taller than the rest.

Now look to see if there is a 1/4" difference in how much adjuster sticks out BELOW the rocker. That will tell you is something is seriously amiss.

A 1/4" is not a slight mis adjustment in a rocker. It won't be the source of a slight valve train noise. Either the intake valve won't close and the car runs like total crap, or the push rod falls out, the car runs like crap, and your oil pressure goes to zero because the lifter usually gets launched out the bore.

Take a close look at your stuff, then report back.

Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2606183
01/13/19 10:53 PM
01/13/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,479
So. Burlington, Vt.
My recollection of the Crane adjuster screws is that the greenish/tanish ones were longer than the black ones.

I also remember there was a hardness issue with some of them for a while.
The last set of new Crane iron rockers I used was in about 2005.
Those had the greenish adjusters...... and they were soft.
They were wearing out on the dyno........ with a .520 lift cam and RPM heads running the as supplied springs.

I’d make a couple pulls...... readjust the valves...... couple more pulls...... readjust the valves.
I put Smith Brothers adjuster screws in...... no problems with those.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2609834
01/21/19 01:11 PM
01/21/19 01:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 953
Chicago
PurpleBeeper Offline OP
super stock
PurpleBeeper  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 953
Chicago
per BSB67 The valve will dictate where the normal final rocker position is. this made a lot of sense. I had some "smutz" on my adjuster screws, so I cleaned everything up really, really well & re-set the valve lash (problem solved). I don't think I was getting a good "feel" of the pushrods & adjuster screws with the crap on the adjuster threads. Now, the engine sounds like a sewing machine & very even.


70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"
Re: Can Hydraulic Lifters Get Stuck "Pumped Up"? [Re: PurpleBeeper] #2610002
01/21/19 06:47 PM
01/21/19 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042
Slidell, La.
D
doctor_mopar Offline
super stock
doctor_mopar  Offline
super stock
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042
Slidell, La.
A little caution for you ! Way back in the early 80s , I installed a comp cams hydraulic cam and lifters with the Isky pushrods and adjustable rocker arms in a 340 . I found that the Isky pushrods were chipping all around the end at the lifters . I found that the contour of the pushrods was a much flatter angle than the cup in the lifters . Apparently the Isky lifters were the only ones comparable at the time . I changed to a different brand of pushrods , and all was well !


------------------------ It doesn't matter what you do.........As long as you look good doing it !
Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1