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Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2623908
02/20/19 08:42 PM
02/20/19 08:42 PM
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AndyF Offline
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If I was building a 1000 hp big block I'd step up to the good parts including a belt drive, Jesel rocker arms, premium rotating assembly and premium valve springs. The 514 race engine I had was set up that way and it worked great for many years. They cost more to build when use the premium parts but once you build one that way you'll understand why engine builders prefer to use the good stuff.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2623944
02/20/19 10:15 PM
02/20/19 10:15 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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The RPM and valve spring pressures have a lot to do with my decision making, my next all out race motor will get the Jesel belt drive I have sitting on the shelf now, that 555 C.I. Koleno block with a set of B1-MC heads and either a set of Jesel 1.7 ratio paired rocker steel arm set up or a set of T&D set up like the Jesel set up in steel also. The last time I talked to the current parts tech at Jesel a year and 1/2 ago told me they don't make or sell any BB Mopar paired shaft rocker set ups for Indy 440-1 in steel, he didn't have a answer when I told him the part # for the current set of 1.55 ratio steel rocker arm paired shaft set up I have on my other back up bracket motor with those heads that came with the steel Jesel paired shaft rocker arm set up confused
T&D does offer them and will make them when you place the order up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/20/19 10:16 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2623958
02/20/19 10:38 PM
02/20/19 10:38 PM
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Massillon, Ohio
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Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
100’s if not 1000’s of 8 second passes with my Mopar big blocks running roller timing chains with zero issues. Some get caught up in tricks, some don’t. Spend YOUR money wisely.

For me has nothing to do with tricks.
The shop doing my machine work and assembly likes them not a deal killer where they would turn the work away if I don't want the belt drive(its not a money deal for them either as like my crank and rods I will have the set up).
If I'm not comfortable with this shops methods and recommendations then I should go elsewhere. Not the shops words but mine. I have decided in the past to take work to a different shop when I did not like what I was hearing.
Lastly I have not had much luck with any of the current timing sets. And that is in low hp (500-600 hp) set ups. So why would I think it will be better in a high hp set up.
I do appreciate everyone's comments. We have a great board where lots of people contribute good imformation


Ok
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2623964
02/20/19 10:50 PM
02/20/19 10:50 PM
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I do really appreciate the information. I've never been given any data on them, other than the expense. I've heard the argument about harmonics, but if that was a big concern the gear drive would be a disaster. I don't believe that we cheated out on any of the parts with this build, it has titanium valves and t&d rocker gear. Another concern with the belt, as this will be a driven car, how dirt and grime will affect belt wear.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: AndyF] #2624075
02/21/19 03:27 AM
02/21/19 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Jesel belt drives, just like Jesel rocker arms are used on serious race engines. You can put them on a street car just for show, but they are designed for hardcore applications.


I have to confess.........the show and tell factor was a powerful motivator for me.
It is a stout street motor and gets used with a heavy foot and a strong disregard for traffic laws.
It will finally see some track time this season.
I tried to do it on the cheap , buying used.
Mine is a Ritter on an R block.......there wasn't much cheap about this deal anyway.
Should have just sprung for the new one , because at the end of the trail I wasn't far from that price.

cutting 031.jpgcooling 002.jpg
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: tubtar] #2624198
02/21/19 02:17 PM
02/21/19 02:17 PM
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If I was building a killer SB engine I'd use a belt drive too just so I could use a belt drive distributor. I hate that rear mount distributor in the SB. I don't even like the 45 degree distributor in a BB. When I was building race engines I always put a belt drive distributor on just because it was so much nicer to work with.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2624248
02/21/19 03:47 PM
02/21/19 03:47 PM
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I belt drive is always a good idea, for those who want the best and plan to actually try an make their car run as hard a possible. If you are a guy who screws or has stuff screwed together plugs it into the car and just runs it then by all means just use a timing chain. If you want the best use the best. If not then don't. I love those ads where people say "the best of the best" used to build. Then see things like timing chains, shelf pistons and eagle cranks. If you want the ultimate in adjustability and less variations in cam timing with BIG springs then use a belt. If you want rock solid timing that will not bounce around, then run a belt drive distributor, if not then don't. It really is just that simple.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2624308
02/21/19 05:51 PM
02/21/19 05:51 PM
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i like the looks of the tensioner pulley, if you have a block that has been align honed more than once the crank to cam distance can be a challenge getting a timing chain the right length

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: 68roadrunner] #2624321
02/21/19 06:18 PM
02/21/19 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By 68roadrunner
i like the looks of the tensioner pulley, if you have a block that has been align honed more than once the crank to cam distance can be a challenge getting a timing chain the right length

Dead right there. my block got line bored so i bought a seal that was 0.040 bigger on the outside diameter & had my Housing machined to match the new centerlines. Too easy.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: rebel] #2624326
02/21/19 06:32 PM
02/21/19 06:32 PM
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SE Washington
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I could't afford it when I first built my motor but added one and a belt distributor at a freshen up. Trust me if you can afford it, its worth it...
BBM uses the same belt as a BBC fyi


Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: 68roadrunner] #2624344
02/21/19 06:54 PM
02/21/19 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted By 68roadrunner
i like the looks of the tensioner pulley, if you have a block that has been align honed more than once the crank to cam distance can be a challenge getting a timing chain the right length




I hope they don’t cheap out on the bushing or bearing in that small tensioner wheel. I’ve seen what can happen if and when that thing siezes up at the high speed it will be going.


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Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Al_Alguire] #2624355
02/21/19 07:25 PM
02/21/19 07:25 PM
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Massillon, Ohio
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
I belt drive is always a good idea, for those who want the best and plan to actually try an make their car run as hard a possible. If you are a guy who screws or has stuff screwed together plugs it into the car and just runs it then by all means just use a timing chain. If you want the best use the best. If not then don't. I love those ads where people say "the best of the best" used to build. Then see things like timing chains, shelf pistons and eagle cranks. If you want the ultimate in adjustability and less variations in cam timing with BIG springs then use a belt. If you want rock solid timing that will not bounce around, then run a belt drive distributor, if not then don't. It really is just that simple.


That is what I have noticed in my street strip car. WHat was once solid timing is not anymore.

Will my engine be all top of the line. No but better than average. Yes anything can fail but I fell better putting a Callies crank and Oliver rods in my KB than I would eagle or 440 Source. Not bashing either as I have ran them with success. Everything has its place.


Ok
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2624421
02/21/19 10:07 PM
02/21/19 10:07 PM
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Nothing I've read here has been informative as to why. All I'm seeing is that if you want to show how big your "wallet" is, it's the part to buy. A $20 hooker in a $1000 dress is still the same beast. I see a few guys here that assume that if you don't own one you are just running cheap junk. I assure you we didn't build a n/a 864 hp pump gas engine on cheap parts. The parts were selected very carefully, but not on the premises that just because it cost more, that it must be the best part. That's the way the government and unions work, and we don't cotton to that mindset.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2624424
02/21/19 10:10 PM
02/21/19 10:10 PM
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If someone could give me back to back test proving hp or reliably/ longevity that would be something completely different, just not pure opinion.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2624428
02/21/19 10:16 PM
02/21/19 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted By wyldebill
If someone could give me back to back test proving hp or reliably/ longevity that would be something completely different, just not pure opinion.


A belt drive can isolate damaging harmonics.

Years ago my buddy had a small block chevy 9 second vega. He started cracking blocks on a regular basis. Ended up That harmonics were being transmitted to the cam causing bad stuff to happen. Don't know if he was running a gear drive or chain at that time.

The belt drive totally solved the problem.


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Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2624446
02/21/19 10:35 PM
02/21/19 10:35 PM
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Thought its been covered. Better harmonics and less deflection of cam timming with BIG springs. Now if you are a typical bracket racer, or a plug and play racer then by all means stick to a chain and save your money.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: Cab_Burge] #2624449
02/21/19 10:37 PM
02/21/19 10:37 PM
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Do your own testing. Get your good ole timing chain and bolt it to a decently sized camshaft. Measure for yourself the deflection then use a belt and do the same. It aint rocket science.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2624452
02/21/19 10:41 PM
02/21/19 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By wyldebill
Nothing I've read here has been informative as to why. All I'm seeing is that if you want to show how big your "wallet" is, it's the part to buy. A $20 hooker in a $1000 dress is still the same beast. I see a few guys here that assume that if you don't own one you are just running cheap junk. I assure you we didn't build a n/a 864 hp pump gas engine on cheap parts. The parts were selected very carefully, but not on the premises that just because it cost more, that it must be the best part. That's the way the government and unions work, and we don't cotton to that mindset.


When I added the belt I also went from SS valves to Ti. since those changes I have not broke a valve spring. prior to I had broken 3 different springs all around 80 passes even though they tested ok. Therefore I can't personally give you a back to back justification. Like its been mentioned the belt distributor is much more accurate especially coupled with the larger cap.

You have already made it pretty clear you don't want one shruggy This post was made to see what options were available besides Jesel... stirthepot

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2624476
02/21/19 11:28 PM
02/21/19 11:28 PM
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St. Paul , Mn.
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Originally Posted By wyldebill
That's the way the government and unions work, and we don't cotton to that mindset.


Your logic is like your timing........could stand a little advancing.
All I'm seeing is resentment because someone bought something you didn't.
You make assumptions about the decisions of others with less information than Stevie Wonder would have after reading this thread.........there were replies that explained the " why " of a belt in this thread if you would have taken the time to read them.
Show and tell was part of my decision.....I copped to it.
What I didn't explain because I figured it was obvious is that with the standard babbitt cam bearing journals , I am relegated to running a smaller diameter billet with my cam. i.e. greater possibility of transferring harmonics to the valve train and increased spark scatter through the general sloppiness of a chain after use.
I still drive the oil pump off the back of the cam , and that is not ideal , but it is what I have.
If I had your money , I would have just wrote a check and had the cam journals punched out for a 60 m.m. billet , had the lifter bores bushed instead of using the fixture and figuring out how to drill as small a hole as possible with the M.P. kit , bought a new belt drive and probably paid someone to put it all together.
I don't think I would have made stupid assumptions about what others did or why they did it.

Re: BB bellt drive, who makes them besides Jesel?Update [Re: wyldebill] #2624516
02/22/19 12:27 AM
02/22/19 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted By wyldebill
If someone could give me back to back test proving hp or reliably/ longevity that would be something completely different, just not pure opinion.


If you can't find anyone to give you the answer you want then I'm sure a shop will be happy to run a series of dyno tests for you.

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