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Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2595953
12/23/18 08:56 PM
12/23/18 08:56 PM
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Suffolk County, New York
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1mean340 Offline OP
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Here’s a close up shot of that #1 cylinders piston...as good as it gets with the cheap bore scope.

71C95290-3951-414C-A347-3201AA08F818.jpegDA28F99D-C9F9-41BB-A783-FD3081C7A18D.jpeg
Last edited by 1mean340; 12/23/18 08:58 PM.
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2595986
12/23/18 10:04 PM
12/23/18 10:04 PM
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Pattison Texas
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yes a bad plug wire can cause a dirty sooty spark plug, also a wide band o2, will tell the computer that the AFR is lean when there is a misfiring cylinder


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596005
12/23/18 10:41 PM
12/23/18 10:41 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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My response will get scoffed at by many........ but that thing woulda had a carb on it two years ago if it were mine.

At least until I could have been able to finance a “real” EFI system.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: fast68plymouth] #2596027
12/23/18 11:26 PM
12/23/18 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
My response will get scoffed at by many........ but that thing woulda had a carb on it two years if it were mine.

At least until I could have been able to finance a “real” EFI system.




But but butt, EFI is the savior of Racing and going fast. Install it and hook up the computer and go Racing. Lol 😂


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596394
12/24/18 06:05 PM
12/24/18 06:05 PM
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AndyF Offline
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I think you have something wrong with that FiTech unit. Could be a plugged injector or one of the injectors might have a leak or something along those lines. Which side of the engine is the wide band in? Do you have a second wide band in the other side or is the other side of the engine not monitored? If you are running a close looped EFI system but only checking one side of the engine then there is a possibility that a problem on one side will drive the ECU nuts.

Have you been checking the learn tables and watching the data logs to see what the FiTech is doing? Those plugs tell me that the mixture is way off which means you have something pretty funky going on with your setup.

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: AndyF] #2596410
12/24/18 06:46 PM
12/24/18 06:46 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted By AndyF
I think you have something wrong with that FiTech unit. Could be a plugged injector or one of the injectors might have a leak or something along those lines. Which side of the engine is the wide band in? Do you have a second wide band in the other side or is the other side of the engine not monitored? If you are running a close looped EFI system but only checking one side of the engine then there is a possibility that a problem on one side will drive the ECU nuts.

Have you been checking the learn tables and watching the data logs to see what the FiTech is doing? Those plugs tell me that the mixture is way off which means you have something pretty funky going on with your setup.


a random misfire can cause this.

Last edited by csk; 12/24/18 06:47 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596437
12/24/18 07:41 PM
12/24/18 07:41 PM
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Plymouth, MI
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Agreed. Fix the ignition issues first as any normal aftermarket EFI system won't be robust to misfires. Misfiring on one cylinder (or more) will throw the self learning portion of the tune way out into left field if it's on the same side as the wideband O2 sensor.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596506
12/24/18 09:22 PM
12/24/18 09:22 PM
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He would've seen a misfire if he is looking at his data logs. A misfire shows up as big spikes in the air fuel ratio.

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: AndyF] #2596553
12/24/18 10:44 PM
12/24/18 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By AndyF
He would've seen a misfire if he is looking at his data logs. A misfire shows up as big spikes in the air fuel ratio.


This is true, but it would seem that most people that install these so called self tuning T body efi systems know very little about reading AFR data logging, NOT TO put down the OP, but the problems he is have are VERY common with ALL of these self tuners. NO OFFENSE TO 1mean340, the problem is the way these KITS are promoted as bolt on & go, that is NOT the case on most installs.


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596927
12/25/18 09:43 PM
12/25/18 09:43 PM
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Suffolk County, New York
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1mean340 Offline OP
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I'll try to answer as much as I can here, it may be a lot to write lol. I am NO pro tuner, I am somewhat familiar with fuel injection and have been getting better with learning how to tune and read logs. I have extensively data logged this setup, probably 50+ logs over the past two years. I've had guys who know more than me look at it and the opinion ranges from "there's something wrong" to "the system is working as it should". I attribute a lot of the mess to E85, as there are many people who don't have good luck with this system on E. I'm hoping now on pump gas it'll be easier to figure out what's wrong.


I can actually post the data logs from the two drivers on these plugs in spreadsheet form if anybody here is willing to take a look. From what I have seen on previous logs, the ECU seems to be adjusting as it should. It had its weird moments and swings I couldn't figure out, but under throttle it wasn't maxing out learns or anything. I have yet to check these most recent logs.

As far as how it runs, I noticed no misfires at idle or with any decent amount of throttle. I have always noticed misfires when under VERY light throttle while cruising under load though. That's the only time I've ever felt/heard noticeable misfires.


The only spikes in the AFR's I have seen on pump gas were lean tip in issues which are common with FITECH and can be worked with by adding accelerator pump shot, and then the car seems to go EXTREMELY lean on deceleration. I know the FITECH has a DAFCO setting that I can shut off, but I almost feel like I'm going way leaner than I should even go with DAFCO when slowing down.

I guess I can talk about a lot of this stuff a lot, but if any of you guys are good at reading data logs I'm sure that will enlighten you a lot more than I can.


FYI, the bank my wideband is on is the 2/4/6/8 side where the plugs looked much more consistent. No exhaust crossover, so whatever is going on with that #2 plug in particular isn't going to affect the tune at all. I've never hooked a wideband up to that side to monitor. I've also never ran a wideband in the exhaust to see if the readings are anywhere close to what the FITECH is picking up, I'd love to do that soon.


I'm definitely doing the wires first. I just ordered Firecore wires from Mancini, hopefully I'll get them soon. As for ignition, I have a 6AL box that was on the car before, can't confirm it's good but it passes the bench test. Brand new MSD blaster coil, brand new MSD pro billet, phased rotor. Fitech controls the timing curve.


CSK, I totally agree. I found out very fast the "self learning" thing is a load of crap. There are hundreds of guys on the FITECH Facebook page constantly discussing tuning parameters. Turning the self learning off after a certain point is also very common. With that said, I realized a long time ago that this setup was going to take a significant amount of tuning to get right. I've learned/attempted a lot and I feel like I haven't made made much progress. It stood to reason that there may have been something else wrong, as no advice I have been given regarding the tune ever really helped. I even tried to bring the car to pro tuners but nobody wants to touch the FITECH setup which sucks.

Last edited by 1mean340; 12/25/18 09:45 PM.
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2596952
12/25/18 10:58 PM
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You might try moving the wideband sensor over to the other bank just to see what happens. Replacing the plugs and plug wires seems like a good thing to do. I've never tried to run E85 with a FiTech or tried boost so I can't help much. You're outside the normal use for a FiTech so you'll just have to keep plugging away at it.

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: AndyF] #2596979
12/26/18 12:32 AM
12/26/18 12:32 AM
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Suffolk County, New York
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1mean340 Offline OP
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Thanks Andy, but no more E85 for me. I like it because I figured it would be much safer to hone my tuning skills on but the system had way too many problems with it and did too much weird stuff that even the FITECH tuning gurus couldn’t explain .

Right off the bat it runs much better on pump gas, seems to be more predictable when making changes and it’s much easier for me not having to find e85 gas stations.

Last edited by 1mean340; 12/26/18 12:32 AM.
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2597010
12/26/18 02:11 AM
12/26/18 02:11 AM
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If it was my car I'd build it like a cake. Start off with the first layer which is pump gas and no boost. Get that combo tuned and then add the boost layer. Once you get that layer figured out add the next layer of E85 or nitrous or whatever you want. Be careful to document each layer so you can always return to the previous tune if you get lost.

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2606870
01/15/19 12:48 PM
01/15/19 12:48 PM
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1mean340 Offline OP
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So I have an update for everyone, and the issue is still just as baffling as before.

I swapped the plugs out and swapped the wires over to new Firecore wires. I did notice the car felt a bit better, idled smoother and better at part throttle. I took it for a short trip with some regular driving and some into-boost pulls and pulled the plugs.

What I am seeing is just about every plug actually looks decent except for cyl #1 which was black as night with dry fuel soot. I swapped that plug out and took it for a ride again with the same result. #1 blackened up right away and the rest stayed about the same with some minor inconsistencies but nothing that seems like it couldn't be addressed by tuning for the leanest hole.

I checked the cap and rotor and pickup and there was nothing bad to note there. It's a new ignition wire now so I know that's not the issue. Still have to do a leak down but the compression test on that hole looked fine.

How the heck could I be getting one SUPER rich hole on throttle body injection? The only two things I am thinking of now is possibly one of the 8 injectors built into the fitch is leaking and trickling straight down into that cylinder. The cylinder next to it which shares in intake port actually looks slightly LEAN compared to the others though, so it's a bit bizarre.

The second possibility is I did buy this top end used from a forum member who had it on his race car and the intake is worked a bit. I'm guessing he really didn't care about idle/cruising fuel distribution, and maybe he massaged the manifold to equalize fuel distribution at WOT in such a way that is wreaking havoc on my street car setup. I just can't imagine how a big single plane could ever flood one cylinder that badly while keeping the cylinder next to it, in the same runner, lean to this extreme though. I'm leaning towards the injector is trickling fuel in such a way that it is finding its way into cyl #1.

Last edited by 1mean340; 01/15/19 01:23 PM.
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2606879
01/15/19 01:09 PM
01/15/19 01:09 PM
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Suffolk County, New York
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1mean340 Offline OP
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The one other thing I was thinking of was I drilled a hole directly over cylinder 1 in the distributor cap to phase the rotor. I meant to buy another cap but never got around to it, I couldn't find a grommet that would stay. I figure spark would follow the path of least resistance but it's coincidental that cylinder 1 is my issue. The contact on cyl int the cap looks like all the others and no signs of tracking in the cap or on rotor.

Last edited by 1mean340; 01/15/19 01:10 PM.
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2606995
01/15/19 04:16 PM
01/15/19 04:16 PM
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Can you move the suspected bad injectors to another location?
If so do so and see if it is bad or not scope up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2607004
01/15/19 04:34 PM
01/15/19 04:34 PM
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Milwaukee WI
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Check valve lash. You may find issues at that cyl.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: TRENDZ] #2607033
01/15/19 05:17 PM
01/15/19 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By TRENDZ
Check valve lash. You may find issues at that cyl.


While you are there look for a broken valve spring.


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2607338
01/16/19 03:35 AM
01/16/19 03:35 AM
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1mean340 Offline OP
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Haven’t had any lash issues with that particular hole, I just checked them all a few weeks back. Spring wasn’t broken. As far as moving the Injector, there are 8 injectors in the fitech that spray into the throttle body. Not exactly sure how to even access them but i’ll Look into it.

Re: Pistons soaked? [Re: 1mean340] #2607839
01/17/19 12:01 AM
01/17/19 12:01 AM
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Love to know what was found. Thank you for the trust and opportunity to be on your sweet-ride.


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