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"Lifetime" T/A project?
#260227
03/20/09 09:32 PM
03/20/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I've been meaning to post some info and pix of my long term T/A project. I could probably write a novel about the car since I've had it over 30 years now  , but I'll try to keep the ancient history of it brief and concentrate more on its current restoration. I bought the car when I was a junior in high school, in late 1978, after looking for a T/A or an AAR. Just in time for the worst winter around here in history! What a dumb choice for a car... Its motor had just been rebuilt, it had a little rust, and the rear tires were bald, but it looked nice and it was in my price range. Luckily it died a few weeks after I bought it (fouled plugs, no thermostat). So it sat under a snowbank until spring, otherwise I probably would have destroyed it in short order. Around the time I graduated HS, I had some rust repair done and a repaint, and not long after that I replaced the cragars with a set of ralley wheels. A guy pulled up next to me at an intersection one day and offered to sell me a set of window louvers for it, which was an option I really wanted on my car.
Check out my car show and cruise photo albums here: Show PicsSeeking info on a Mr Norms sold T/A VIN JH23J0B308737. Does it still exist?
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260229
03/20/09 09:45 PM
03/20/09 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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After college I was pretty tied up with starting my career, going out with friends, etc, and the car wasn't high on my priorities. I bought a house in '89 and a garage was a high priority, living at my parents, their 1 car garage always had too much in it to get my car in there, so it lived outside with a car cover on it. I don't know that it had ever been garaged, and unfortunately I came to find it had a lot of leaks.
My interest in Mopars got renewed in the early 90's and in '97 I bought a Challenger convertible. Buying that car and taking it to local shows got me thinking about starting a full restoration of my T/A, by now the trunk floor was pretty rusty and some bubbles were popping up here and there.
A guy at my work who had lived in MI and had a small collection of Shelby Mustangs and Ford race cars gave me the name of a guy over there in MI who he claimed "was the best in the world in fixing rust". Who knows more than a "Rustang" guy about the old "tin worm" right???
Although he was mainly a Mustang guy, he had recently finished a restoration of a '68 Charger that ended up getting best of show at its first show (Mopars at the Red Barn) and placed at the Nats. So I took the plunge and got on his waiting list. This was '99, I think.
I started disassembling and documenting the car, and a few months later he called and said he was ready to have it. He drove over with a trailer and picked it up. I figured I'd have it back in a year or so. Little did I know!!
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260230
03/20/09 09:54 PM
03/20/09 09:54 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Not long after my car got to the shop, his one employee left to take on another career. He was trying to make it as a one man show, but it became apparent after awhile he wasn't making much progress.
I wasn't all that upset, I had just lost a ton in my investments during the "tech wreck" and was sort of glad not to be getting bills from the shop. He got sick and couldn't work for a while, my employer started going downhill and I found myself worrying about getting laid off. Months turned to years, and by early 2005 I got laid off, but lucked out and found a better job in a month. I was really feeling pretty good for the first time in years, and really wanted my project to get back going now that I felt more secure in my career.
I traveled out to MI that summer to see my car and see if he might get going on it again, or if I needed to try to find somewhere else to take it.
Here it is after over 5 years at the shop.
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260231
03/20/09 10:09 PM
03/20/09 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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He was back working full time at the shop by now, and was finishing up a car that had been there since before mine. It took him a year or so to get that one wrapped up but then he finally started working on my car extensively.
I had thought to myself over the years that I wondered what I had got myself into, but once he really got going with the car, I really wondered what I had got myself into!
The car had been a good "10 footer", I knew the trunk floor was shot because the rear window leaked. But I came to find that rear window was only one of many places that had leaked probably back to the day the car first hit the dealer's lot.
The interior floor was almost "day one" except for an area below the clutch pedal area, because the A pillar leaked and water had seeped in and pooled under the carpet. Leaves had clogged the drain holes in the cowl and because of that the firewall had some rusty areas. Rust under the vinyl top, several holes in the rear wheel housings and more.
Scott was going to send the car out the the media blaster early on, but decided it would be better to do some metal repairs before stripping the car, so it would be structurally sound during the process.
I had bought a trunk floor from AZ, he installed that. The frame was in mint shape except for the rear spring perch area. So he had to replace the last 4 or 5 inches of the rear frame.
Pictures he sent of the progress were pretty depressing at some point, with the amount that had to be cut away.
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260236
03/20/09 10:38 PM
03/20/09 10:38 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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So, here we are in March 2009, around 10 years after I had put a deposit down to have Scott restore my car. I have managed to track down a lot of rare parts for my car over the years that I have stashed away waiting the day I can install them on my car, steel wheels, original E and G 60 polyglas tires, NOS mufflers, mint trim, I redid my seats with a Legendary kit, etc.
I never expected I'd have to replace so much sheet metal. I have a pair of mint '70 fenders, a mint rear tail light panel, an mint AZ trunk floor, 2 repro quarters, NOS front valence,and now 2 nice used doors. Plus all the patching of the cowl, the floor, the rear wheel housings.
Just to complicate life further, I lost my full time job late last year and have been getting by on unemployment and income from a side job.
Last summer I refinanced to take money out to build a bigger new garage so I'd have room for my T/A when it comes home along with an '09 Challenger R/T I had planned to get this year.
The '09 dream is on hold, but since Scott is making so much progress the last thing I want to do is tell him to put it on hold. I opened a new HELOC when I did that refinance, I wrote my first check drawing from it a few weeks ago to put down another deposit on the resto work.
I hate to take on any debt, but fortunately other than my mortgage I had no debt going into my unemployment. And the interest rate is only 2.25% on the equity line right now so interest payments are tiny. Hopefully I will get back to full time work again sometime in the near future, I don't want to take on a lot of debt but I don't want to have this project go on indefinite hold after it has dragged on for so long already.
Somehow this car needs to be finished before I die of old age!!!
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260237
03/20/09 10:47 PM
03/20/09 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,089
Sorrento, BC, Canada
4speeds4me
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Sorrento, BC, Canada
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Man...that's almost a happy ending. Usually stories that start like yours end with "I went to see my car and the guy told me most of the parts were lost/stolen/sold and he wouldn't be able to finish it so I should take it home the way it is." It looks like it'll be pretty sweet when it's finished.  Is the engine #'s?
2 Demons...no, not my kids! 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Moparman440]
#260242
03/21/09 10:56 AM
03/21/09 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Quote:
Very cool story and glad to see you still have it. Are you in the Burbs or City ? You don't have to say in the open forum but I'm in the Western burbs. I've had 3 T/A's but none currently. I have a few projects I need to finish but hope to get into another very soon. Hopefully I'll bump into you and your T/A in the near future. I would love to see it.
I'm in the near NW burbs. When I bought the T/A it was in Arlington Heights, a mile or two down the road from where I live now. The sales paperwork showed the original owner (who I thought I tracked down through online snooping but have been unable to contact) lived in Rolling Meadows about 3 miles from my house. I lived in Glenview with my parents when I bought it, and the Mr. Norms sticker was actually a newer one, as it showed his second location in Buffalo Grove in addition to his chi town address. It must have been sold used at Mr. Norms in the early 70's after being sold there new . It didn't sell at Mr. Norms new until February of '71 and the original owner traded in a Challenger 340 on it!
Other than these years it has been MI at the restoration shop it has always lived in a pretty small area geographically.
I took it out to the Koller Dodge show once, probably in '99, just prior to when I started taking it apart.
If you attend local shows and cruises you've probably seen my convertible. A FK5 383 car with a flat hood. It's at the CMC Belvidere show most every year, I used to take it to the Naperville show until that show turned into a Neon and new car fest with the vintage muscle stuck out in the far reaches of the grounds like red headed step children. 
I take the vert to several local cruises like Rolling Meadows too, so if you see me stop by and say "hi" and we can chat about T/A's 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Moparman440]
#260247
03/21/09 11:44 AM
03/21/09 11:44 AM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I'll be driving through Bartlett here in a few moments to my side job (currently only job) out at the Dupage Airport! The Rolling Meadows cruise has been over at the Rolling Meadows Meijers store parking lot the last few years but they kicked us out because the 500+ cars showing up on a nice night were taking up too much of their huge lot! This year I've heard it is being moved back to its old location in the abandoned Dominicks parking lot on Kirchoff road in down town Rolling Meadows. There is a regular group of Mopar guys who attend that cruise, maybe hard to find us lost among the 100 late model Corvettes that show up at that cruise every Friday?  I also attend the cruise in downtown Mt. Prospect many Saturday evenings. Small but mostly vintage cars, very few late model cars there. Never did hear about that black V code.
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260252
03/23/09 05:27 PM
03/23/09 05:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
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Hi, I've got a question for you, I noticed on the driveside inner fender were the words VOID, My brother had a 70 Challenger R/T SE with the same VOID stamped in the same place. any idea what that means?...thanks
Semper Fi
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: MADMANMOPAR]
#260254
03/24/09 12:09 AM
03/24/09 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
minivan
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Quote:
I was a junior in High School in 1978 too and my curiosity is getting to me as to the price you had to pay in 1978.. I'm guessing $1000..
The fat cragers look cool on that thing too..
It was me you were thinking of and it was my A12 4 speed car I sold for $700... NOBODY wanted them gas hogs.. Heck gas had gone from 36cents to around 60 cents a gallon.... ah yes...
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: minivan]
#260255
03/24/09 12:01 PM
03/24/09 12:01 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I remember filling up my car at the local EZ-GO not long after I bought it, Premium was 75.9. At the EZ-GO at the other side of town there was a Vanishing Point look-alike white Challenger R/T sitting there for a while with a For Sale sign on it, IIRC it was around $800. It was a 383 4 speed, missing a fender and the aircleaner. It was a little tired looking, but I was sort of interested because the interior was mint and my T/A's seats were ripped up and I wanted the seats out of it to replace the ones in my car. Some clown from my high school ended up buying it for $600, and not long afterward dropped out of high school. Then I heard from a guy from his neighborhood that this clown's "friends" had smashed the windows out with a baseball bat. I went by his house looking for him to see if he'd sell me the seats, but neither he nor the car was around. 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260256
03/25/09 06:20 PM
03/25/09 06:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 234
Chicago, IL
Moparman440
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Quote:
Then I heard from a guy from his neighborhood that this clown's "friends" had smashed the windows out with a baseball bat. I went by his house looking for him to see if he'd sell me the seats, but neither he nor the car was around.
That's a bummer of a story. Too bad you didn't buy it. Think you would of kept it all these years ? You did with the T/A so I'm guessing so.
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: FY1TA & 65 Wedge]
#260258
03/26/09 07:24 PM
03/26/09 07:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,526
Tenn.
jrwoodjoe
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I agree, I had seen some photos of your car in the past and can't wait to see it done. The old school photos with large wheels and tires are awesome. Joe
65 Barracuda
70 Challenger
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: jrwoodjoe]
#260259
03/26/09 09:46 PM
03/26/09 09:46 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I sure hope it gets finished in the next few years, with some luck the body and paint may be finished later this year. Then the real fun begins, trying to put it all together and detailing it! It was supposed to go in to the media blaster this week, I haven't heard if it is there though. I bought those Cragars not long after getting the car, I knew T/A's came with 15x7 wheels, so I got a pair that size from the speed shop. Took them over to Firestone to get a couple G60's. They called me a little later and said there was a problem. Something about my new wheels being "positive offset" and not fitting in the wheelwells. They said I could get shackles or air shocks to make the new wheels and tires work. I went with air shocks. Sometimes I would feel the tires scraping the wheel well lip when I'd hit bumps in the road, then I'd have to head over to the gas station and pump a few more pounds into the airshocks for more clearance! 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: 70gtx440dana]
#260261
04/08/09 01:03 PM
04/08/09 01:03 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Quote:
Brad - I read the whole thread. Glad to see those doors I sold you will help bring back to life such a nice car. I will check in periodically to see the progress.
Thanks for the doors Joe! Scott says they are really nice and will be a lot better to work with than my rusty ones.
The car was supposed to be off to the media blaster a few weeks ago but that seems to have been delayed. One of Vance Cummins projects was at the stripper and needed to be finished and out of the way first, and Scott has been doing a few small projects on other cars.
But hopefully it will be project will be back on the front burner soon!
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: a12superbee]
#260264
12/29/10 10:28 PM
12/29/10 10:28 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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I was surprised to see this post still was around and hadn't faded away into Moparts history! Some odds and ends were happening with the project later in '09 into '10 but not a lot. The car went off to the media blaster in the summer of 2009. Not long after that, a former customer of Scott's, Mike, started working on the front end. Mike's in the Coast Guard and likes doing restoration projects in his free time. The '68 Charger him and Scott restored in the '90's was quite impressive. In early January, I was talking to Mike on the phone about some details of the front suspension, and he mentioned he'd been by Scott's Shop to have Scott paint the K member. I asked how my car looked after the media blasting and etching primer. Mike told me the car wasn't there. I started to panic, the car went to the media blasters over 6 months earlier and I figured it was back a long time ago. I talked to Scott, and he said he thought the stripper (Sid) hadn't finished it because I hadn't paid him. WTH, I'd paid him up front. So Scott checked into it, and found the car was almost finished, he was not happy with Sid. Sid is well known in the area and used by restorers like Scott and Vance Cummins, but he has some serious health issue that is slowly killing him. After Scott got on him, he finished up his work on the car but my car may be the last car he ever does, as he isn't healthy enough to do the work any more. The car finally came back to the shop in February or early March, 8 or 9 months after it went to the strippers! Over the next few months, Mike finished up the front end work, mounted everything on the restored K member, and the pictures looked great. I finally got a full time job offer in June, and talked to Scott about coming over to drop off parts as I was going to be sent out to work in North Carolina for the summer and would be unable to get parts to him for a while. The soap opera continued, his wife had hooked up with an old beau she'd reunited with on Facebook, and now they were going through a messy divorce, which put him out of action again for the time. So he told me no hurry to bring over parts! I got a call in November from Ron Mack, an engine guy whose shop is near Scott's place. He tells me he has my engine and plans to get working on it soon. Of course, I have half the engine stuff at my house, so I told him I'd try to make a trip over there when I was on furlough in late December. So yesterday I packed a bunch of stuff in my Focus, darn trunklock was froze so I had to pack it all in the front and back seats instead of the trunk! Time for a road trip. 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260270
12/29/10 10:49 PM
12/29/10 10:49 PM
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Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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We then drove over to Ron's shop. It's Ford country over there, but I guess that is OK. Ron has a nearly completed '72 Pantera project and his real AC Cobra 427 sitting there in the front part of his shop when you walk in, and an pre Cobra '63 AC in the back. Pretty cool stuff. I dropped off my restored starter, date coded carbs, water pump, NOS fuel pump, air cleaner, restored clutch fan, and other items for Ron to use on my #'s matching 340.
Should look beautiful next time I see it! (Ron better not paint it Ford Blue!)
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260273
12/30/10 12:05 PM
12/30/10 12:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
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Great story, and nice to see another life'r on here. My hat is off to you guys with regard to the rust issues. It's hard enough to resore them without having to deal with the added headache, heartache and expense of what rust can do to these old Mopars.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: 70Fish]
#260275
01/05/11 08:31 PM
01/05/11 08:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,058
NW/Indiana - Chi town
ricomondo
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Hey Brad, This is the first I saw of this thread. It was a great read and awesome to see your car. I cant remember if I've seen your car or not. When we met in 97' I had that FY1 Mr Norms T/A, and I guess Im just gettin old, cuz I would think Id remember seeing your car. I know you've been collecting parts for ages. I cant wait to see it when its done! Hopefully you wont have to part with any of the other toys to pay for this...lol.
GY3 71 Demon 340
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: ricomondo]
#260276
01/06/11 12:53 AM
01/06/11 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Hello Ray I'm pretty sure the first time we met was at that Rt. 66 Mopar show in Joliet, must have been around '97, as I do recall you had the yellow Mr Norms T/A at the time! Since then you've had another T/A, an AAR, the Challenger convertible, the Superbird, the Demon 340 and now the cuda 340 and here I am still working on the same project!  Believe it or not, my T/A was last licensed around '88 or '89. I'd go screw around with it from time to time and get it running. Since your a LEO I'll just say I would pull it out in the driveway and drive up and down the driveway, and that the allegations I would put plates from one of my other cars on it and drive it around some are just rumors! (What is the statue of limitations on illegal use of license plates anyway??) I did take it to the Koller show in '99 (it levitated there to Naperville ) There was a guy there named Gil I knew who won best stock of show with his FJ5 T/A. I really wonder if that T/A Best of Show (or whatever they are calling themselves now) is listing for sale is Gils old car, can't be too many FJ5 CA emission factory window louver T/A's in the world. Gil sort of disappeared off the face of the earth after he sold that T/A. I may have to sell something, I have 4 Challengers and a 3 car garage! Maybe I could get a 4 post lift so could park all 4 in there, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Otherwise the V code has to go.... but when I was first getting going on this project I was telling people I'd probably have to sell the convertible to support the T/A project. 10 years from now I'll probably still be working on the T/A and saying I'll have to sell another E body I had bought recently. My life is sort of like the movie Groundhog Day.
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: 79machocharger]
#260281
01/06/11 09:50 PM
01/06/11 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,647
IL
71383beep
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Nice read! Real cool that you have had the car for so long. I am almost positive we have met because I frequent the northern IL shows a lot and have seen your chally convert several times. Would be great to see the T/A one of these days too. Keep up the good work! BTW if your looking to offload one of those pesky challys I think I can make some room up here for one! 
'73 GK6 Challenger Rallye - 340 4-Speed
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: 71383beep]
#260282
01/07/11 02:04 AM
01/07/11 02:04 AM
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Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
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Quote:
Nice read!
Real cool that you have had the car for so long. I am almost positive we have met because I frequent the northern IL shows a lot and have seen your chally convert several times. Would be great to see the T/A one of these days too. Keep up the good work!
BTW if your looking to offload one of those pesky challys I think I can make some room up here for one!
Hi Chris, I've seen your car at alot of shows, I have many pictures of your Charger in my picture collection. Also I had the root beer V code at MCACN last November if you were there, so maybe we've talked, I'm a tall guy with a little limp that becomes a progressively worse limp as I run around car shows all day, so I'm not hard to pick out from the crowd of Mopar fanatics...
Obviously the project has gone in fits and starts, the last decade unfortunately had a lot of ups and downs and constant fires to fight for me, and the project had to go on the back burner a lot, but it's looking like the things are coming together for me with the new job, so WTH... it may actually get done during my lifetime!
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260285
01/13/11 07:42 PM
01/13/11 07:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992
midwest
68427vette
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pretty sad how "Post deleted by 69DartGT " deleted the only factual statement in this thread, just goes to show all of you!! hope you claimed that "side job income." at least some of us are honest enough to NOT sugar coat things... good luck with the cool car, and i'd take the vegas bet, your not going to make the car show!! 
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: 68427vette]
#260286
01/14/11 02:14 AM
01/14/11 02:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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Quote:
pretty sad how
"Post deleted by 69DartGT "
deleted the only factual statement in this thread, just goes to show all of you!!
hope you claimed that "side job income." at least some of us are honest enough to NOT sugar coat things... good luck with the cool car, and i'd take the vegas bet, your not going to make the car show!!
Maybe when you'll grow up, you'll learn to check your facts before you go on a tirade. In Illinois you can earn up to 1/2 your unemployment benefit in a part time job without affecting your benefit. That 5 to 15 hours a month of flight instructing I did didn't exactly qualify me for a country club membership, let alone add up to enough to affect my benefit. 
And your accusations I risked the lives of children driving without insurance really was out in left field. I haven't driven a car without liability insurance in 25 or 30 years, and never claimed I did in this thread.
You are not nearly as smart as you think you are, and I am not sure why you've chosen to pollute my restoration blog with your bs, surely you can find something more constructive to do to make you feel better about yourself?
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Re: "Lifetime" T/A project?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#260287
01/14/11 10:55 AM
01/14/11 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992
midwest
68427vette
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,992
midwest
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still taking the vegas bet, your not going to make the SHOW, dates are November 19-20, 2011. i had a thought also, about , how you lumbered along, on this resto, putting some blame on the restorer ordeals. Since i deal with many restoration shops, and see that they have many "customers" cars, waiting to be worked on due to "Funds not available" and putting the shop, in jeapordy, and creating storage/work issues. anyhow,, i didnt mean to bust your goNads too bad, but its glad to see, you can see the light at the end of the road and another T/A will soon be on the road again, this decade, only 9 years left. yea, and I don't have to do something, "more constructive to do to make you feel better about yourself" i do very well for myself..Semi-retired, under 40, and feel great everyday. but i'll take that shot,, i have thick skin... my feathers dont get ruffled, Ever. i'll be booking my tickets for the show. If you make it, i'm buying! UGG, november in chicago, ick  http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=438940&page=1In the mean time.  and yes, i'd still buy the N96, if it was what i wanted.option wise. color/ 4 sp? i have a few shaker cars. and i will say, that i reflex that I was out of character/ and may have come down on you way wrong, i apologize. to many plow truck hours 50+ hrs straight... a little wound up, carry on..
Last edited by 68427vette; 01/14/11 01:57 PM.
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Back in the day stuff, been there done that. 
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