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Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? #2595814
12/23/18 03:59 PM
12/23/18 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 370
Suffolk County, New York
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1mean340 Offline OP
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1mean340  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Suffolk County, New York
Tired of seeingGM guys make over 650rwhp with stock bottom end 5.3/6.0 turbo/e85 builds. I'm a big GM guy too and these setups are a dime a dozen in the GM world with some guys pushing the limits even further than that with surprisingly good longevity.

So what about the 5.7? I know the ring lands are the weak point and the general consensus is they are the first to pop when boost is turned up. That seems plausible (and somewhat tested).

But what about the rest? the later Hemis used forged powdered metal rods. GM guys use forged powdered metal LSA rods in 900+HP builds.

Crank? I know a lot of guys swap to the forged 6.1 crank but just wondering if this is necessary. Look at how far guys push the stock 5.3 cast crank. Hardly anyone touches it up to 700RWHP. How much different could the design/material be of the Mopar stuff?


What makes me go "hmmm" is the fact that so many of the boosted hemi guys are running blowers, and to me this kind of skews the comparison. I love blowers but there is no denying that they eat a substantial amount of power in parasitic loss and put more stress on the crank when utilizing serpentine belt drives.

It just bothers me seeing so many people I know making 650+ RWHP with cheap, basically stock bottom end 5.3 turbo builds that still last and take a beating, but you'd be convinced from most Mopar resources that you'd need something like the $2100 MMX drop in forged piston/rod/6.1 crank combo just to start with.

I almost feel like there are a ton of guys in every Mopar group quick to point out how you can't make XXX power with a lot of the factory bottom end parts but you hardly see anyone trying. I mean, I'm sure there is a logical reason for that and it is probably because you don't find 5.7's in junkyards for $500 like you do with GM 5.3's. , but without a solid group of guys pushing the limits it makes me wonder how we know so much about what those limits are?

Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2595861
12/23/18 05:31 PM
12/23/18 05:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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Silver70  Offline
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Rust Belt, SW PA
Mines not done yet... I opened the ring gap which should help on this '12 5.7, but since got all forged internals for an earlier 5.7 and have a 6.1 assembled too.

Theres a member here glhmini I believe is his screen name who has a turbo 5.7 jeep that runs pretty strong.

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Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2596223
12/24/18 12:21 PM
12/24/18 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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topfueldart Offline
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Renton Wa
Originally Posted By 1mean340

It just bothers me seeing so many people I know making 650+ RWHP with cheap, basically stock bottom end 5.3 turbo builds that still last and take a beating, but you'd be convinced from most Mopar resources that you'd need something like the $2100 MMX drop in forged piston/rod/6.1 crank combo just to start with.

I almost feel like there are a ton of guys in every Mopar group quick to point out how you can't make XXX power with a lot of the factory bottom end parts but you hardly see anyone trying. I mean, I'm sure there is a logical reason for that and it is probably because you don't find 5.7's in junkyards for $500 like you do with GM 5.3's. , but without a solid group of guys pushing the limits it makes me wonder how we know so much about what those limits are?


Nail on the head. There just aren't enough Mopar guys willing to take the chance and put in the work to do it, or re-do it when it breaks for that matter. It takes a bit more money to get in the door with a hemi than it does an LS, and most guys would rather pony up the dough for pistons and rods as "insurance" than give it a shot as is and risk doing irreparable damage. Lots of people get stuck in the mentality of chasing a number horsepower wise, and never even bring the project to fruition.

There is a guy on here with a yellow Duster and a 5.7/S475 with im pretty sure stock internals that's been in the low 6's in the 1/8th, and the aforementioned Jeep which has only pistons and has been in the mid 10's as well, so there are a few people doing it on a pretty low buck scale.


11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.

9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2596326
12/24/18 03:30 PM
12/24/18 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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Silver70  Offline
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Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
That yellow duster was running 15 or 18lbs of boost on the stock internals... hard to believe it stayed together, if it still is now, no idea. He had vids on youtube on the dyno and so on.

The jeep has the drop in piston and rods.

Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: Silver70] #2596365
12/24/18 05:03 PM
12/24/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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topfueldart Offline
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Renton Wa
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1106-turbocharged-hemi-engine/

Very old article, using a stone stock pre-eagle 5.7.

Also openly discusses the junkyard cost differences, and general internet theory regarding piston strength.


11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.

9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2596395
12/24/18 06:06 PM
12/24/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,541
USA
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hudsonhornet7x Offline
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I for one would not build a boosted engine without the proper parts. I don't want to see how much a stocker will take, I want to KNOW that the power I am making is safely contained inside the block instead of oiling down the track for me or my opponent to wreck.

I just don't get the make big power on junk parts idea. Maybe I am old? ( 37) lol

Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2596406
12/24/18 06:24 PM
12/24/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Michigan
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Kiddart Offline
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Michigan
the concept of building with spare parts is just that. build it for as little as you can and run it hard. I see it a lot with the ls motors. I am doing my 5.7 in steps. I used a junk yard block and everything inside. I did hone the cylinders put new bearing in it and oil pump. I am in for just under $1000. I have spent more money on the computer and harness and headers. I will know shortly if this pays off. If I break it I will then do the drop in pistons and rods. I just want to drive this car everywhere and not burn $8 a gallon. I am sure I will find its limits really quick, then the sky is the limit, but I will do it with as many factory parts I can. if the new demon can do so can my little 5.7.

plus its nice to buy engine parts on the cheap.

just my two cents


Thank you
Kiddart
Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: Silver70] #2596644
12/25/18 03:44 AM
12/25/18 03:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 112
Michigan
ghinmi Offline
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ghinmi  Offline
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Posts: 112
Michigan
Originally Posted By Silver70

The jeep has the drop in piston and rods.

It does have the drop in pistons and rods now but I did run the stock stuff for a long time. Never had a failure of any kind. I was going to have to take it apart to gap the rings if I wanted to turn it up so I upgraded instead. I drive it too much to worry about it. If it was just a weekend vehicle, I'd gap the rings and be done with it.

The stock parts are fine and really not much different than LS stuff. They will take a bunch of power if you have the right game plan and manage cylinder pressure (hint, lots of rpm). And it will not happen on a stock ECU, save the headaches and go with an aftermarket standalone right off the bat.


1975 Jeep Cherokee compound turbo 5.7 Hemi/6 speed AutoX/Drag/Street.
9.97 @ 140 slicks, 10.74 in autox trim
Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2598407
12/29/18 03:33 PM
12/29/18 03:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 361
Canada
onig Offline
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onig  Offline
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Canada
I have an 04 5.7 that I wanted to test the limits of the stock bottom end with a turbo. The engine had a ticking noise when pulled out, but started and ran fine. Taking it apart found the exhaust manifold was cracked. That made me feel good, not the bottom end. Inside the engine was a bent rod that was lightly taping the piston making the ticking noise. So that testing the stock bottom end went to H@?L. Disappointed I was.


69 Dart
Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: onig] #2598904
12/30/18 07:13 PM
12/30/18 07:13 PM
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Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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Ontario Canada
You want a stock used replacement piston and rod for free?

Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: 1mean340] #2599151
12/31/18 12:33 PM
12/31/18 12:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,400
Trumbauersville PA
ric3xrt Offline
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ric3xrt  Offline
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Trumbauersville PA
the big issue for the early Hemi(03-08) is the piston , the top ring is too far up and the factory end gap is too tight, open up the gap to about .014 you can go as high as 12lbs with a great tune, and good tune 10 is max, crappy tune and you'll go boom at 8. the later 09+ 5.7 is a better "stock" engine to boost, the top ring was moved down on the piston,


Truth has no agenda, but those with an agenda make their own truth.
Some of us are so open minded they only see their View



Re: Where are the big power turbo 5.7 guys? [Re: MattW] #2600359
01/02/19 11:45 AM
01/02/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 361
Canada
onig Offline
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onig  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By MattW
You want a stock used replacement piston and rod for free?


Thanks, but I am not going to use the stock bottom end.

Last edited by onig; 01/02/19 11:45 AM.

69 Dart






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