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ring and pinion woes... #259229 03/19/09 04:46 PM 03/19/09 04:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Installed new ring and pinion last weekend, and the wear pattern is bad.... How can I remove the bearing off the pinion? I need to shim the bearing. This is a 8.25" rear. '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259230 03/19/09 04:50 PM 03/19/09 04:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,065 Milwaukee, WI In_The_Pink master
In_The_Pink master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,065 Milwaukee, WI	Press the pinion out of the bearing. Take it to a shop if you don't have a press.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: In_The_Pink] #259231 03/19/09 06:25 PM 03/19/09 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	I have a press at work but I have no idea how to get it off... '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259232 03/19/09 06:28 PM 03/19/09 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA	You need one of these. 5105181-BearingSep.jpg (153 downloads)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: John_Kunkel] #259233 03/19/09 06:36 PM 03/19/09 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	There is absolutely no room between the bearing race and the back of the pinion. Unless I need to destroy my new bearing to get to the inside lip... '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259234 03/19/09 06:41 PM 03/19/09 06:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,396 Mass dgc333 pro stock
dgc333 pro stock Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,396 Mass	The shim on an 8.25 goes between the race and the case. There are reliefs in the case to tap the race out so there is no need to get the bearing off the pinion. Dave Clement Pembroke, MA 03 PT Cruiser GT Turbo 99 Dakota SLT+ CC 4x4 68 Barracuda sport coupe http://home.comcast.net/~dgc333/

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: dgc333] #259235 03/19/09 07:00 PM 03/19/09 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Wouldn't the shims have to go behind the 'bigger' race? If so, the shims in the kit were way too small... '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: dgc333] #259236 03/19/09 08:05 PM 03/19/09 08:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	OK, everywhere I look I see shims being placed on the pinion itself. I would much prefer punching out the race and doing it that way but I'm kind of confused based on the size of the shims... '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259237 03/19/09 08:28 PM 03/19/09 08:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,065 Milwaukee, WI In_The_Pink master
In_The_Pink master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,065 Milwaukee, WI	Quote: OK, everywhere I look I see shims being placed on the pinion itself. That is correct. There is a special tool used to remove the pinion bearing pictured in the factory service manual, looking much like the one John posted above.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: In_The_Pink] #259238 03/19/09 08:40 PM 03/19/09 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Where can I buy said tool? '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259239 03/19/09 09:26 PM 03/19/09 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 203 florida 7 74fldart enthusiast
74fldart enthusiast 7 Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 203 florida	ive seen those on ebay, search for bearing seperator

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259240 03/19/09 09:58 PM 03/19/09 09:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 671 Wisconsin USA B Bill MeLater mopar
Bill MeLater mopar B Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 671 Wisconsin USA	If you have an old bearing, just hone out the ID a little to make it a slip fit on the pinion. When you get the shim setup/contact pattern correct just replace it with the pres fit/new bearing. Saves you from potentially damaging new parts..

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259241 03/20/09 08:11 AM 03/20/09 08:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,396 Mass dgc333 pro stock
dgc333 pro stock Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,396 Mass	Quote: OK, everywhere I look I see shims being placed on the pinion itself. I would much prefer punching out the race and doing it that way but I'm kind of confused based on the size of the shims... When I rebuilt my 8.25 there were no shims between the bearing and the pinion and there were (3) between the race and the case. The master kit I got also had shims for the pinion. I lucked out and two of the ones behind the race got mine pinion where it needed to be so I never had to go looking for the larger shims. BTW, I mocked up mine with some gauge blocks and a drop indicator to set it for the depth engraved onto the end of the new pinion. I was within 0.002" and when I put it together the pattern was perfect. Also, a lot of pinions will have another number engraved onto the bottom like +.004 or -.002. If the existing one has a similar number you take the difference and adjust the shim pack by that much and you will be where you need to be. Dave Clement Pembroke, MA 03 PT Cruiser GT Turbo 99 Dakota SLT+ CC 4x4 68 Barracuda sport coupe http://home.comcast.net/~dgc333/

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259242 03/20/09 08:18 AM 03/20/09 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: There is absolutely no room between the bearing race and the back of the pinion. Unless I need to destroy my new bearing to get to the inside lip... You are going to destroy the bearing even with that plate , buy a new bearing . I have honed out bearings with a flapper wheel so I could make a test bearing , you'll need about 5 of those wheels to do the job, do it if you think you'll be doing this more than once. Or you can put the pinion in a drill press or a lathe and polish the shaft where the bearing goes till you can just get the bearing to slide on and get it off by hand , I saw that in a tape I got from Richmond on how to set up rear gears . Last edited by Johnahah; 03/23/09 09:46 AM.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: JohnRR] #259243 03/21/09 11:19 AM 03/21/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	OK. Took pinion out and had a local shop pull both bearings on the old pinion and new. Then I made a 'slip-on' bearing out of the old one, good thing I did too. It took 4 times to get a pattern that I liked. Now a new problem has developed: I can't get the crush sleeve to crush! I am using a brand new CP Earthquake impact (625 ft lbs). There is about 20-30 thousanths(sp) of in and out play... so I'm guesing that the sleeve isn't crushing. Any ideas/tricks? '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259244 03/21/09 03:43 PM 03/21/09 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Anyone? '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259245 03/21/09 04:08 PM 03/21/09 04:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	Who told you to use an air impact wrench to tighten the pinion nut? What instructions are you reading? The FSM tells you to torque the pinion nut to 170 foot pounds of torque and then check the preload. If there is not enough preload, keep tightening until you reach proper preload. If you exceed the proper preload, you will need to replace the crush sleeve and start over. 5109118-8.25AxleSpecifications.jpg (139 downloads)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259246 03/21/09 04:10 PM 03/21/09 04:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 671 Wisconsin USA B Bill MeLater mopar
Bill MeLater mopar B Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 671 Wisconsin USA	Try a torque wrench, don't think an impact will do it.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259247 03/21/09 04:13 PM 03/21/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA	It's a bad idea to use an impact on a crush sleeve pinion nut, too easy to overtorque and ruin the crush sleeve. Just use a cheater bar and take the nut down slowly. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: John_Kunkel] #259248 03/21/09 04:26 PM 03/21/09 04:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	Did you use the correct belleville washer under the nut and is it correctly positioned, convex side of washer up? From the 70 FSM 5109164-MeasuringDrivePinionBearingPreload.jpg (282 downloads)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259249 03/21/09 05:39 PM 03/21/09 05:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Quote: Did you use the correct belleville washer under the nut and is it correctly positioned, convex side of washer up? From the 70 FSM Yes, I used the right washer, and it is oriented correctly. I'm having a hard time holding the yoke while tightening the pinion nut. Any tricks? I'm using the largest channel locks known to man... '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259250 03/21/09 05:47 PM 03/21/09 05:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	AndyF has a yoke holder available here, I think it uses a 3/4" breaker bar or ratchet. 5109284-AndyFYokeHolder.jpg (47 downloads)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259251 03/22/09 02:52 PM 03/22/09 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA	A super-size pipe wrench makes a good yoke holder. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: John_Kunkel] #259252 03/22/09 04:00 PM 03/22/09 04:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Thanks for everyones help! I finally was able to crush the sleeve, but it took some enginuity... Stack of blocks stopping the channel locks, which had a hose clamp around the handle holding the jaws tight. Then I used a floor jack to tighten the nut. Little by little, I would jack it up, then take it all off and measure rotational torque... Needless to say, just took a test drive and everything is peechy! '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259253 03/23/09 09:48 AM 03/23/09 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Well that's an interesting way to do it ...

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: JohnRR] #259254 03/23/09 10:37 AM 03/23/09 10:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana C capac OP mopar
capac OP mopar C Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 507 Northern Indiana	Does this make me elligable for some sort of redneck award? '64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: capac] #259255 03/23/09 11:05 AM 03/23/09 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies aarcuda I Live Here
aarcuda I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,478 the boonies	not yet. once those pliers break and smack you in the face- then you get the award

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: aarcuda] #259256 03/23/09 01:10 PM 03/23/09 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: not yet. once those pliers break and smack you in the face- then you get the award

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259257 03/23/09 01:39 PM 03/23/09 01:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	Quote: AndyF has a yoke holder available here, I think it uses a 3/4" breaker bar or ratchet. That's a yuppie tool Unless you have a concours NOS Hemi yoke that you don't want to scratch then just use a pipe wrench. A pipe wrench is much faster especially if you are setting pinion bearing preload. Just my

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: 446acuda] #259258 03/23/09 04:17 PM 03/23/09 04:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	I'm trying to figure out how you would go about figuring out the torque with that setup.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259259 03/23/09 04:45 PM 03/23/09 04:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	Quote: I'm trying to figure out how you would go about figuring out the torque with that setup. the pipe wrench would be removed when checking pinion bearing preload with an inch-lb torque wrench just the same as the yoke holder would be removed when checking pinion bearing preload. Both serve the same purpose: to hold the yoke when tightening or loosening the pinion nut. Maybe I just don't understand what you mean?

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: 446acuda] #259260 03/23/09 05:07 PM 03/23/09 05:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	The factory requires a minimum of 170 foot pounds of torque on the pinion nut. How would you calculate the torque applied to the nut, without guessing?

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259261 03/23/09 05:28 PM 03/23/09 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	You hold the yoke with anything that you want and use a torque wrench to torque the pinion nut to specs. The torque wrench doesn't care what you hold the yoke with whether it's a 2 foot yoke holder or a 10 foot pipe wrench or anything in between.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: 446acuda] #259262 03/23/09 05:55 PM 03/23/09 05:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif. S Snoopy master
Snoopy master S Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 8,850 Central Coast, Calif.	Show me the torque wrench in his setup.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259263 03/23/09 06:10 PM 03/23/09 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Show me the torque wrench in his setup.

Re: ring and pinion woes... [Re: Snoopy] #259264 03/23/09 06:21 PM 03/23/09 06:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	ok I got ya. What I was saying is that it is much quicker setting pinion bearing preload with a pipe wrench since it can be removed much quicker than a pinion holding tool. Odds are, you are going to have to remove the yoke more than a few times to get the correct shim pack for get the preload in specs and it would get old removing that pinion holding tool after a few times. I realize that the yoke holding tool can be used just to remove and install pinion nut and that's obviously what you are getting at and if that's the case, buying an occasional use "specialty tool" doesn't make much sense unless you are going to use it more than a few times a year. There are some specialty tools worth having but this isn't one of them IMO.

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