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Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
#258841
03/19/09 09:53 AM
03/19/09 09:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
W5Duster436
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
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Is there a way to find TDC easily with a stop or something without taking the timing cover off etc? I am thinking my balancer may have slipped and wondered the easiest way to detect it.
'70 Duster - SDSS 436 W5 4spd (Gone)
'71 Dodge D100
'70 Dodge W100
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: W5Duster436]
#258844
03/19/09 10:06 AM
03/19/09 10:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Yes the TDC tool is cheap/simple. put your marks at 5BTDC, screw it in until it firmly contacts the piston, with a breaker bar turn crank CCW until it contacts the piston & it should be at 5ATDC. I also put a plastic vac cap(one of those 5 cent colored rubber ones) on the end to keep from(potentially) nicking the piston. Balancers do not slip very often. What is your situation?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: RapidRobert]
#258849
03/19/09 11:09 AM
03/19/09 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
W5Duster436
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
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Yeah it's driving me crazy too. I have FP regulated at 6.5 psi and am using a Carter mechanical strip pump with regulator. 3/8" pickup and line to the front. I will be adding the in-car fp gauge next week. The pump is the only thing different from 20 years ago. I think I had two holley blue pumps and a fram filter back then. Now mechanical pump. I also checked the vent tube on the tank to ensure it wasn't plugged.
'70 Duster - SDSS 436 W5 4spd (Gone)
'71 Dodge D100
'70 Dodge W100
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cov
[Re: RapidRobert]
#258850
03/19/09 11:17 AM
03/19/09 11:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Looks like advancing the initial worked for you. So what are the details of the fuel system, pump carb LINE SIZE?  was any of this changed since it ran good? Nevermind... I see you posted while I was typing.
Last edited by 64Post; 03/19/09 11:18 AM.
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cov
[Re: W5Duster436]
#258852
03/19/09 11:28 AM
03/19/09 11:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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I'm also running a Carter mech, but without the regulator. If I were at sea level I might be in the same boat as you. But since I'm losing 100+ HP up here my need for fuel flow is also decreased.
Until you put it on a dyno or get an in-car gage you could be chasing your tail on this one. I do think it's fuel starvation though. The quicker the car accelerates the harder it is for a mech. pump to suck fuel to the front of the car.
Last edited by 64Post; 03/19/09 11:35 AM.
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: RapidRobert]
#258854
03/19/09 12:08 PM
03/19/09 12:08 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Yes the TDC tool is cheap/simple. put your marks at 5BTDC, screw it in until it firmly contacts the piston, with a breaker bar turn crank CCW until it contacts the piston & it should be at 5ATDC. I also put a plastic vac cap(one of those 5 cent colored rubber ones) on the end to keep from(potentially) nicking the piston. Balancers do not slip very often. What is your situation?
Rapid, I disagree with your procedure for a couple of reasons
If the stop is homemade it may be quite long
If the marks have moved, 5* may not give you enough "room"
5* is not really very accurate because the piston is so close to the top, I.E. the crank is close to "over the top." Much more accuracty is obtained with the piston somewhat further down, so.......
Make yourself a stop or buy one.
MAKE SURE the piston is down, either by looking at the damper/marks or by feeling with a stick/ coat hanger, etc
Install the stop.
Carefully wrench the engine one way until it stops ---Make a temporary mark at TDC
Carefully wrench the engine the OTHER way until it stops. My recollection is that my stop puts the marks at more than 20*.
IF YOU DECIDE to degree the wheel yourself, it is important to use a flexible tape to measure with AND NOT dividers or calipers. This is because if you use dividers, you are measuring the TANGENT distance, and not "around the circle" as with a tape.
Balancers don't slip very often, but they DO slip. I"ve probably found 4 or 5 over the years, one of my old engines "back when" and the others friends. 60's--70's Fords were terrible. I used to do tuneup work at NAS Miramar, and found several Fords
FAR MORE of an issue is a worn timing chain/ sprockets, especialy with the phenolic sprockets. (They are not "gears")
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: Dart 340]
#258856
03/19/09 12:32 PM
03/19/09 12:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
phantomx
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 982
W. Sacto CA. USA
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I agree with 440sixpack, use a piston stop tool, make temp marks on your balancer using your current TDC indicator. Half way between the marks is your true TDC.
Travis..
70 GTX project, orig 440-4, 4 spd, track pack, FC7, stripper/street racer special.
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: phantomx]
#258858
03/19/09 12:42 PM
03/19/09 12:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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 Don't know if this is anymore understandable. but ... To double check if your pointer is at Zero. Put the piston stop in the Number one cylinder. Make sure piston is nowhere near TDC when you put the stop in. 1. Begin by rotating the crankshaft by hand, until the piston comes up and stops against the piston stop. 2. Note the position of the balancer and where the '0' timing mark is pointing . Mark the balancer here. I would use a piece of tape. Maybe draw a arrow as to which edge you are referring to. 3. Next hand turn the engine in the opposite direction until the piston comes up and once again at the stop. 4. Look at where the '0' timing mark is pointing. Put a piece of tape here again. This should stop exactly the same distance on the other side of your balancer's TDC mark.’ In otherwords your TDC mark should be exactly between these two marks on the balancer you made. If not your balancer's TDC mark is off. - Take a small strip of paper lay it on the balancer
- mark and cut it to the length between the two tape marks you made.
- Fold this piece of paper in half,
- lay the piece of paper on the on the balancer again, between the two marks line up to one edge of the paper to one of the marks.
- The other edge of the paper is where your TDC on the balancer should be.
- Mark this new mark on the balancer as your new TDC and don't forget to remove the piston stop.
No degree wheel needed! Sorry if this complicates it more.
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: HealthServices]
#258859
03/19/09 01:45 PM
03/19/09 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
W5Duster436
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,084
Indiana
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Okay here is what I am having trouble getting a grasp on. Brain not functioning today I guess.  Let's say that the balancer did slip and is off a tad. I rotate to 10* BTDC clockwise and then put on the piston stop. Now I go counter clockwise and it should stop exactly 10* ATDC when it hits the stop. Since the balancer is not likely to slip while doing this manually shouldn't it always come up equidistant on the other side of the starting point? I can see it being off a little bit just from the chain tension when one goes from clockwise to counterclockwise?
'70 Duster - SDSS 436 W5 4spd (Gone)
'71 Dodge D100
'70 Dodge W100
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Re: Easiest way to find TDC without removing timing cover
[Re: W5Duster436]
#258860
03/19/09 01:56 PM
03/19/09 01:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Just concentrate on where the pointer (zero in your case) is pointing at ON THE BALANCER . Just put the stop in the number one hole, where it stops is not a concern.