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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: 451Mopar] #2589475
12/09/18 05:40 PM
12/09/18 05:40 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted By 451Mopar
Might install a later dual "O"-ring rear band pin.
Haven't decided on bands yet. The stock bands look fine and thinking of reusing them, but I have a new Mopar Performance Front band on the shelf. I think it is Kevlar? Not sure if I should install it or not.
Need to still get a trans cooler and maybe a deep pan.



I add RTV over the rear band pin depression at the outside of the case. never had one leak. If the old rear band looks good use it. I like the hard Red band best. I'd use the Mopar one you have.

You can buy more Altos here, $6.80 each. In fact they carry near everything you might need.
https://www.transpartsonline.com/TRANS_P...nsPartsType=727

But I've found the greens to hold up at 700Hp with no issue. Cant beat the 518 OD truck pan. free ship from Amazon, $39
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PH4...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Doug

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590067
12/10/18 09:29 PM
12/10/18 09:29 PM
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Moparmal Offline OP
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Thx everyone for the advice. I have one last dumb question -

IF, I run a Super Sprag and a LBA valve body, is there any chance of the drum still over-running and exploding? .....or will these two items fix the risk?

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590071
12/10/18 09:33 PM
12/10/18 09:33 PM
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Sydney,Australia
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Originally Posted By Moparmal
Thx everyone for the advice. I have one last dumb question -

IF, I run a Super Sprag and a LBA valve body, is there any chance of the drum still over-running and exploding? .....or will these two items fix the risk?


Yes

Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590097
12/10/18 10:07 PM
12/10/18 10:07 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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The only way to eliminate the risk is buy the good drum. About the same cost as a LBA valve body and Super Sprag anyway.
Doug

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590249
12/11/18 05:52 AM
12/11/18 05:52 AM
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I think the separation of views is coming down to HOW a drum explosion may occur.

Ruling out the common cause of no LBA valve body causing an over-running clutch.....I think I’m right in assuming only some form of drivetrain breakage would cause similar trauma.

I’m prepared to bank on no major breakages at my power level - so hopefully the LBA VB and the Super Sprag will be enough fire proofing

F this thinking is flawed...have at it smile


67 RO23 clone with 6.1 SRT Hemi and dual quads. Soon to have Drag Pak induction and Throttle body.
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590260
12/11/18 08:11 AM
12/11/18 08:11 AM
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Michigan
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You don’t have to have driveline breakage to fail the ORC.

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590261
12/11/18 08:30 AM
12/11/18 08:30 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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As mentioned, the stock drum is the real issue, the part that can explode. The Super sprag and LBA are improvements to help prevent the overspeed condition.

Link to TCS Drum tests:
http://www.tcsproducts.com/media/uploads/user-files/Drum_Tests_Jan_2017.pdf

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590266
12/11/18 09:09 AM
12/11/18 09:09 AM
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Wow! Page 3 and the “I been runnng the stock drum 4ever and if you do everything right it won’t fail” crowd hasn’t chimed in!

Having been around two of these failures over the years (both started with broken 8.75 gear), you REALLY don’t want this to happen. One occurrence was full tilt catastrophic with peices stuck in the door panels and wiped out all the gauges + dents in the roof (he limped away luckily). This was in the early 90’s and we had NO clue that this could even occur. Our stuff got the good drum in the 727, and we put blankets on both of our cars.... even the 904.

....and speaking of 904, much smaller mass and they don’t explode. Not saying it’s not impossible, but to date I’ve never heard of one that has.

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590276
12/11/18 10:10 AM
12/11/18 10:10 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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On the race trans stuff, I though the TF-2 shift kit (or was it the B&M Trans pack?) used to include the HD front band strut? Was looking through the TF2 kit and no band strut, so ordered up one of the nice thick band struts this morning.

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: 451Mopar] #2590301
12/11/18 12:04 PM
12/11/18 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted By 451Mopar
On the race trans stuff, I though the TF-2 shift kit (or was it the B&M Trans pack?) used to include the HD front band strut? Was looking through the TF2 kit and no band strut, so ordered up one of the nice thick band struts this morning.


I've been using the TF-2 kits for over 25 years and never had one come with a HD band strut, so it must have been the B&M.

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590369
12/11/18 02:25 PM
12/11/18 02:25 PM
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MI, usa
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Who has ever bent a band strut?
Doug

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: dvw] #2590396
12/11/18 02:51 PM
12/11/18 02:51 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Me. Never seen one in person either. (only pics)


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: dvw] #2590405
12/11/18 03:12 PM
12/11/18 03:12 PM
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Anoka County, MN
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Not personally in roughly 50 builds, for customers and myself since 1977. I'm not betting my reputation against it, though, for basically peanuts.

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590409
12/11/18 03:20 PM
12/11/18 03:20 PM
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After all these years, there's just no reason for anyone to be exploding a transmission. But...people still do, just like they still stick their foot under a mower, touch a stove to see if it's hot and blow their fingers off with fireworks.

5500-6000 engine RPM with a broken roller clutch is all it takes. Lower horsepower applications can get by with a non-LBA valvebody, IF you drive the car correctly. At higher power levels, you have to apply that band to give the roller clutch some help. And you have to maintain the thing - take it apart once in a while and look at it - instead of running it till it quits. In any race style application, not putting a good drum in the thing is asinine.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: CMcAllister] #2590416
12/11/18 03:34 PM
12/11/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
After all these years, there's just no reason for anyone to be exploding a transmission. But...people still do, just like they still stick their foot under a mower, touch a stove to see if it's hot and blow their fingers off with fireworks.

5500-6000 engine RPM with a broken roller clutch is all it takes. Lower horsepower applications can get by with a non-LBA valvebody, IF you drive the car correctly. At higher power levels, you have to apply that band to give the roller clutch some help. And you have to maintain the thing - take it apart once in a while and look at it - instead of running it till it quits. In any race style application, not putting a good drum in the thing is asinine.


Well I guess I'm insane.. been running the stock
drum since the 80s.. yeah I've tore it apart a
few times for worn parts but NEVER blew it up..
no LBA.. dont pedal it in LOW.. SHIFT
it.. they only blow in low gear so
get out of low as soon as you can
wave

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590503
12/11/18 06:39 PM
12/11/18 06:39 PM
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If I have an LBA valve body, AND a Super Sprag, how can the drum explode?

This is what I’m not getting shruggy

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590521
12/11/18 07:02 PM
12/11/18 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted By Moparmal
If I have an LBA valve body, AND a Super Sprag, how can the drum explode?

This is what I’m not getting shruggy


2 things here.. the LBA wont stop it fast enough
and the super sprag isnt a save all.. it helps
but it doesnt help all.. if you get on and off
the gas the rollers go back then slam forward
and tighten up to tight for the sprag and starts
to come apart
EDIT
there is 3 ways to not have a explosion.. 1
is dont pedal the car under load.. 2 is buy a
drum(alum or steel or 3.. put a 904 in it
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/11/18 07:18 PM.
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590573
12/11/18 09:19 PM
12/11/18 09:19 PM
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West Plains, MO
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4. Scattershield and put an 833 in it. Or a Jerico, a Lenco... whistling

Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590585
12/11/18 09:41 PM
12/11/18 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By Moparmal
If I have an LBA valve body, AND a Super Sprag, how can the drum explode?

This is what I’m not getting shruggy


Chances are it won't, unless the rear band fails to apply due to broken parts (servo, band, etc.) AND the roller clutch has also failed due to driver error, parts failure, AND you have your foot in it causing the engine to free rev to 6000+. You have to decide if you want to trust that all of that won't happen at the same time.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 12/11/18 10:56 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans.... [Re: Moparmal] #2590588
12/11/18 09:47 PM
12/11/18 09:47 PM
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Ok, thx for the explanation, I get it now. bow

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