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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Moparmal]
#2588489
12/07/18 10:31 AM
12/07/18 10:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
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The bolt in sprag, as others have said, is not necessary. The only reason I would use one is if the stock sprag was loose in the case or had obvious problems.
I tyically build 4-5 727's a year for local guys and never have an issue there.
The 727 in my car holds well over 700HP on spray and it is surprisingly stock! LBA Turbo Action fwd pattern valvebody, good clutches and steels and governor removed (not necessary, but just less parts to fail if removed.)
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: dOc !]
#2588490
12/07/18 10:32 AM
12/07/18 10:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
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I would rather SPEND DA BUCKS on a good drum than CHANCE blowing up a trans ... losing the case .... destroying the valve body and MAYBE hurting the converter !! Which brand(s) have you used and why?
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Moparmal]
#2588517
12/07/18 12:06 PM
12/07/18 12:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 874
Missouri
jwb123
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 874
Missouri
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I have been racing mopars since 1974, never had a trans blowup or even burn one up, knock on wood. Always built my own. I have seen several of my buddies blow up over the years, lucky only minor injuries. With the damage possible to car and humans, it is only smart to use a good drum. I like the aluminum drum with the stainless sleeve, good friction surface and lightweight. The problem is most valvebodies do not hold the rear band in low gear, that plus the stress of not doing a burn out right is what causes the issue of sprag failure. I have used the low band apply valvebody, because it is safer, but in my testing the regular manual valvebody, that does not hold the band is a little faster. The low band was just not designed to be released quickly. Which is what you need for a clean 1-2 shift. Even with the modified low servo, just my opinion. http://www.tcsproducts.com/media/1/TCS_TF727_Performance_Transmission_Parts.pdf
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: FurryStump]
#2588644
12/07/18 03:58 PM
12/07/18 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,743
Rio Linda, CA
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Correct me if I’m wrong but isnt the low band applied in all forward gears if you have LBA valve body. No. It releases on the 1-2 upshift.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2588729
12/07/18 07:26 PM
12/07/18 07:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,814
Connecticut
FurryStump
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,814
Connecticut
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Correct me if I’m wrong but isnt the low band applied in all forward gears if you have LBA valve body. No. It releases on the 1-2 upshift. Ok thanks!
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Moparmal]
#2588763
12/07/18 08:30 PM
12/07/18 08:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458
Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458
Sydney,Australia
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Gday Tex.
So what is the story? I have a Griner/Cope RMVB to swap in.
Where I’m stuck is the d3cision on the sprag and 2/3 strut...I think the bolt in sprag is a must...haven’t heard much about struts failing. If building a big sprag will not hurt , strut bar yes a heavy duty or billet one us good Low band apply only way to go especially street driven If you are starting from scratch and are seriouslly racing put a billet drum in . Though my footbrake trans has a stock drum , it was 65/6600 throuh the traps Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Moparmal]
#2588908
12/08/18 01:53 AM
12/08/18 01:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458
Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,458
Sydney,Australia
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Mal,
Sprag failure is a bit luck of the draw in my opinion .
High HP and or high rpm needs a drum .
Make your own call after adking and thinking . Then hang on for the ride
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: dart games]
#2589029
12/08/18 02:08 PM
12/08/18 02:08 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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And contrary to popular belief, it doesn't take big horsepower to do that. If the sprag/overrunning clutch fails, a stone stock 318 is capable of causing that kind of carnage. A drum explosion is strictly a product of RPM x first gear ratio, 2.45. Kevin
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Twostick]
#2589037
12/08/18 03:09 PM
12/08/18 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
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And contrary to popular belief, it doesn't take big horsepower to do that. If the sprag/overrunning clutch fails, a stone stock 318 is capable of causing that kind of carnage. A drum explosion is strictly a product of RPM x first gear ratio, 2.45. Kevin I saw one let go in a 340 Barracuda dialed 13:70, so yes, it can happen to anyone.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: Moparmal]
#2589307
12/09/18 01:09 PM
12/09/18 01:09 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Currently putting together a 1966 727. More HD than race, the Super Sprag and Billet drum are out of the budget.
Changes so far have been replacing the 19-spline input shaft with a 24-spline input shaft so torque converter choice is easier. Rear vent, and sprag lube hole from the cooler return. Threaded restrictor plug in case. FT-2 Shift Kit using the stock '66 servos, stock 3.8:1 band lever.
Have an old rebuild kit where all the clutches were supposed to be Alto red eagles, but bulkpart shipped alto read eagle rear clutches and Raybestos Green (High Energy) front clutches. Kolene steels for both clutch packs.
The trans looked pretty good and stock with maybe one rebuild (low mileage car.) No stripped threads in the case, sprag still tight in the case, but previous rebuilder had many of the sprag roller springs installed backwards. Might install a later dual "O"-ring rear band pin.
Haven't decided on bands yet. The stock bands look fine and thinking of reusing them, but I have a new Mopar Performance Front band on the shelf. I think it is Kevlar? Not sure if I should install it or not.
Need to still get a trans cooler and maybe a deep pan.
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Re: When is a Race trans not a race trans....
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2589343
12/09/18 02:04 PM
12/09/18 02:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,664
Wichita
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Currently putting together a 1966 727. More HD than race, the Super Sprag and Billet drum are out of the budget.
Changes so far have been replacing the 19-spline input shaft with a 24-spline input shaft so torque converter choice is easier. Rear vent, and sprag lube hole from the cooler return. Threaded restrictor plug in case. FT-2 Shift Kit using the stock '66 servos, stock 3.8:1 band lever.
Have an old rebuild kit where all the clutches were supposed to be Alto red eagles, but bulkpart shipped alto read eagle rear clutches and Raybestos Green (High Energy) front clutches. Kolene steels for both clutch packs.
The trans looked pretty good and stock with maybe one rebuild (low mileage car.) No stripped threads in the case, sprag still tight in the case, but previous rebuilder had many of the sprag roller springs installed backwards. Might install a later dual "O"-ring rear band pin.
Haven't decided on bands yet. The stock bands look fine and thinking of reusing them, but I have a new Mopar Performance Front band on the shelf. I think it is Kevlar? Not sure if I should install it or not.
Need to still get a trans cooler and maybe a deep pan. This is the exact setup I do for guys that want a good street/strip trans. In addition, we usually add the governor of their choice if they want to leave it in drive and have it shift on its own at a desired rpm. I ALWAYS tell them to shift into 2nd during a burnout and to let me tear it down if they break a driveline component to check the sprag. I have used both stock bands and rebuilder bands with zero issues.
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And right or wrong I always use an aluminum front drum in a race build.
