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Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: Mike P] #2585725
12/01/18 04:47 PM
12/01/18 04:47 PM
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Handygun Offline
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I ran the can style mounts on my 58 w/new isolaters from Kanter. I had an old MoPar hot rodder tell me to chain it down also but I dismissed it because I thought with the 45's that the cans sit at it would be impossible for the engine to lift up providing the isolater was good and fully inserted. I noticed that coming off the line under full power the car wasn't going forward enough for all the activity that was under hood and figured it to be the converter, then I fabbed a tight fitting shroud on it. The first time I stood on it I about tore the shroud off. Use a tie down with those can type mounts.

Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2585841
12/01/18 09:50 PM
12/01/18 09:50 PM
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Mike P Offline
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".... Use a tie down with those can type mounts....."

Not bad advice on any mount that doesn't have a built in movement limiter.

I personally haven't had any problem with my mounts. I bought 3 pair over 25 years ago, I bought them out of a parts store and they were probably old stock....maybe a different rubber formula or something.


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: Handygun] #2585990
12/02/18 03:38 AM
12/02/18 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted By Handygun
And I bet it will drive fine. My 58 Plymouth with the 518,Fury bars,avg kyb shocks, 15x7 rims w/225/70/15's was fine on trips where I drove at 75+ for miles. Mine was a wagon and when the roof would start oilcanning that was my govener, probably over 100.


I have KYB shocks, everything up front new. Ball joints, bushings, tie rod ends, drag link. I'm trying to adapt a Wilwood front kit as well. I think I cruise around 80mph with blurts to 110 or so, maybe once a year a little higher...
I have 15x7 with 215/70/15 fronts right now and 255/60/15 on 15x8 in the rear. I'll swap to a 67 B body rear soon and see if I can stuff some 295s under the rear. But I want clearance first and foremost. I can't stand rubbing around corners and dips etc.
I drove a few different FL cars back in the day, 80mph was no problem....


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: Mike P] #2585992
12/02/18 03:48 AM
12/02/18 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted By Mike P

".........I ended up going with the original 58 front end, rebuilding it all and throwing on some Wilwoods all four corners........"

".........And I bet it will drive fine........."

For what it's worth I agree. I like the handling and feel of the original suspension on my 57 Plymouth. My only mods were Disc brake conversion and addition of a 57/8 Imperial sway bar. I've had a 57 Dodge and my current 57 Plymouth with stock suspensions and driven both cross country and both did very well at highway speeds +.

My only complaint was the steering....the power steering has no road feel, and with a heavy engine the manual steering can be a hand full at times.

Re reading my last sentence and thinking back , I just realized I didn't mind the manual steering in the Plymouth that much when I first built the car. Of course when I first built the car 12 years ago I didn't have carpal tunnel and arthritis in my right hand and wrist either. By the way I have shelved the idea of adapting a later steering gear to my 57 Plymouth....at least for now.



Did you settle on the 440 for power? There are a lot of choices but a 440 sure makes these old boats a fun car. I went back and re-read the thread to refresh my memory and must have missed your post on the original style motor mounts.

"......... the original style might worry me because my blandest small block is a healthy hydraulic roller 360. I would probably go up from there as far as power goes and not sure I trust the original style mounts........"

Building mounts from scratch using a more modern style motor mount might a bit easier than digging up the original style. Like I said I have an original pair of V8 frame mounts, and I think the rubber part of the mounts are still available new.

You might have a problem finding the "cans" the mount slips into however, and they are different between the Poly/Hemi and 58 B motor.

FWIW from firsthand experience using the stock mounts and occasionally abusing them, they hold up fine.

This was the 440 backed with a pushbutton 65 727 in my old 57 Dodge.

And this is the 354 backed by a 4 speed in my 57 Plymouth.

Both sit on the original style mounts.


Is the 57/58 Imperial sway bar a bolt in? Noticeable improvement?

My car is manual steering. Whole car looks in really good shape, 80,000 original miles. I was thinking of keeping the manual steering with the 215/70/15s up front. I do have access to an even lower mile power steering setup from a 56 Dodge my buddy THINKS will bolt in, but I know I would need to alter pump pressure I read somewhere.
Haven't decided on power, I have a very healthy 360, a fresh 9:1 440, and will probably up power down the road anyways. I'll lighten up whatever I run as much as possible, maybe aluminum heads etc. Will have to see.

I have a few motorhomes that could sacrifice their frame mounts for my 58, I can then use a newer style mount no problem.
I'm well aware of your red car. Love it.


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2585994
12/02/18 03:54 AM
12/02/18 03:54 AM
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Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
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jsta FEW motor homies ? You best pic the lightest and the most aero one to stay with mine on a HIGH GEAR PRESS ! tsk apimp

Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2585995
12/02/18 04:00 AM
12/02/18 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted By CarrotVanMan
jsta FEW motor homies ? You best pic the lightest and the most aero one to stay with mine on a HIGH GEAR PRESS ! tsk apimp


You type SUSPICIOUSLY like my old nemisis....


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2585999
12/02/18 04:27 AM
12/02/18 04:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
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Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
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nEmIsIs huh ? .... that Masterful Dude prefers the label here as a pUnIsHeR ! grin ... and yes we have compared notes about choo and are in total agreement that you must ....

rElEaSe the oleHAM now !

F9234127-44C5-4C77-A57B-57BC7F79A023.png
Last edited by CarrotVanMan; 12/02/18 05:49 AM.
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586035
12/02/18 10:33 AM
12/02/18 10:33 AM
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Mike P Offline
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“…..I think I cruise around 80mph with blurts to 110 or so, maybe once a year a little higher...”

You cruising sounds pretty much like the driving I’ve done going from Arizona to Illinois the three times I’ve done it in my 57 Dodge and Plymouth. I guess you cruising in your Canadian built Plodge would be an average of both LOL. For me it was just too tempting not to open both cars up going across the Texas pan handle. Neither car felt unsafe at 110+ MPH.

The Plymouth of course is the manual steering car with sway bar and the Dodge had factory PS and no sway bar. The Dodge ran a 440 with cast iron dual quad intake while the Plymouth has the iron Hemi so I would say the engine weights were pretty close to each other. If you do elect to go with an LA engine you should be significantly lighter which would ease the effort with the manual steering box.

Both cars had/have front Disc/rear Drum brakes. Both cars run 235/70/15s on 8” rims in the back and 205/75/15s on 6” rims in the front. The 205/75s are pretty much the same height as your 215/70s but narrower which makes low speed steering a bit easier with the Plymouth. Neither car ever had a tire rub problem even when the trunk was loaded with suitcases, tools etc.

The 57 Dodge was originally a 325 Poly car and I ran the original torsion bars under the 440 with no problems. The Plymouth was an original Flat Head 6 car. I got lucky and scored a NOSR pair of 57-8 Chrysler Windsor bars for it. The stock 6 Cyl bars were pretty spindly looking compared to the V8 bars. Even though the 6 Cyl bars would probably be fine under an LA engine, if I were building your Regent I think I would definitely look for a pair (of even used) V8 bars, preferably from the Windsor. I don’t know if the 57-8 Chrysler/DeSoto are dimensionally the same as the Dodge/Plymouth but it might be worth looking into.

The Plymouth with the heavier bars and sway bar is a lot firmer than the Dodge was. I know the sway bar helps but I think a lot of the difference is also the heavier torsion bars.

The Imperial Sway was a bolt on (if you come across a 57-8 Chrysler/DeSoto with a swar bar I suspect that will also fit). The Imperial bar is the largest bar Chrysler offered, but it is only ¾”. A 1” bar would have been great but would have to be custom built.

To make the bar fit you MUST have the center links and end brackets that connect the bar to the brake reaction strut. I was able to get all new bushing for the sway bar from Andy Bernbaum.

Sway Bar by M Patterson, on Flickr


The only fabricating I had to do was build the brackets that are welded to the frame that the inner hangers connect to…..it was easier than cutting the original brackets from the donor car.

As far as the 56 Dodge PS I think you will find that it doesn’t even come close to fitting, but you never know. The 57 PS gear was a 1 year only and replaced in 58 with a “better” design. Chrysler used the same gear from 58-62 and any of those (and the 57) will fit but you will probably need the 57-8 Column tube. Seems like the turn signal switch might also be different between the manual steering and PS columns ……but it’s been too long since I played with that to remember for sure.

Anyway hope this helps.

Last edited by Mike P; 12/02/18 11:44 AM.

1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: Mike P] #2586630
12/03/18 03:17 PM
12/03/18 03:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
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Originally Posted By Mike P
“…..I think I cruise around 80mph with blurts to 110 or so, maybe once a year a little higher...”

You cruising sounds pretty much like the driving I’ve done going from Arizona to Illinois the three times I’ve done it in my 57 Dodge and Plymouth. I guess you cruising in your Canadian built Plodge would be an average of both LOL. For me it was just too tempting not to open both cars up going across the Texas pan handle. Neither car felt unsafe at 110+ MPH.

The Plymouth of course is the manual steering car with sway bar and the Dodge had factory PS and no sway bar. The Dodge ran a 440 with cast iron dual quad intake while the Plymouth has the iron Hemi so I would say the engine weights were pretty close to each other. If you do elect to go with an LA engine you should be significantly lighter which would ease the effort with the manual steering box.

Both cars had/have front Disc/rear Drum brakes. Both cars run 235/70/15s on 8” rims in the back and 205/75/15s on 6” rims in the front. The 205/75s are pretty much the same height as your 215/70s but narrower which makes low speed steering a bit easier with the Plymouth. Neither car ever had a tire rub problem even when the trunk was loaded with suitcases, tools etc.

The 57 Dodge was originally a 325 Poly car and I ran the original torsion bars under the 440 with no problems. The Plymouth was an original Flat Head 6 car. I got lucky and scored a NOSR pair of 57-8 Chrysler Windsor bars for it. The stock 6 Cyl bars were pretty spindly looking compared to the V8 bars. Even though the 6 Cyl bars would probably be fine under an LA engine, if I were building your Regent I think I would definitely look for a pair (of even used) V8 bars, preferably from the Windsor. I don’t know if the 57-8 Chrysler/DeSoto are dimensionally the same as the Dodge/Plymouth but it might be worth looking into.

The Plymouth with the heavier bars and sway bar is a lot firmer than the Dodge was. I know the sway bar helps but I think a lot of the difference is also the heavier torsion bars.

The Imperial Sway was a bolt on (if you come across a 57-8 Chrysler/DeSoto with a swar bar I suspect that will also fit). The Imperial bar is the largest bar Chrysler offered, but it is only ¾”. A 1” bar would have been great but would have to be custom built.

To make the bar fit you MUST have the center links and end brackets that connect the bar to the brake reaction strut. I was able to get all new bushing for the sway bar from Andy Bernbaum.

Sway Bar by M Patterson, on Flickr


The only fabricating I had to do was build the brackets that are welded to the frame that the inner hangers connect to…..it was easier than cutting the original brackets from the donor car.

As far as the 56 Dodge PS I think you will find that it doesn’t even come close to fitting, but you never know. The 57 PS gear was a 1 year only and replaced in 58 with a “better” design. Chrysler used the same gear from 58-62 and any of those (and the 57) will fit but you will probably need the 57-8 Column tube. Seems like the turn signal switch might also be different between the manual steering and PS columns ……but it’s been too long since I played with that to remember for sure.

Anyway hope this helps.


It helps immensely. Thanks Mike!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586663
12/03/18 04:19 PM
12/03/18 04:19 PM
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Going to start with 215/70/15 on 15x7 up front and 255/60/15 on 15x8 in the rear. I have the 295/50/15s for the rear I will see if they fit once I swap rears.....

smalltires58.jpg

CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586675
12/03/18 05:18 PM
12/03/18 05:18 PM
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i think you made a good choice of wheels CRaZie. those will look good on your car. can you post a side & rear pic of those installed ? i'm thinking of a different size rear tire other than a 295-50, but a side pic would confirm my thought.
unless, of course, you already have them.
beer

Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: moparx] #2586683
12/03/18 05:34 PM
12/03/18 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted By moparx
i think you made a good choice of wheels CRaZie. those will look good on your car. can you post a side & rear pic of those installed ? i'm thinking of a different size rear tire other than a 295-50, but a side pic would confirm my thought.
unless, of course, you already have them.
beer


Thanks!

I've got brand new 295/50/15s here, as well as mounted 255/60/15s.
Nothing on the car yet!!
Have you tried this yet...?

https://tiresize.com/comparison/


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586688
12/03/18 05:45 PM
12/03/18 05:45 PM
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i book marked that link. looks interesting, so i'll try several applications to see how close they come to actual tire and wheel combos i have mounted here.
i have tried several size charts like that, and depending on the tire brand, they can be off by several inches on the circumference. still, comparisons by several charts and actual measurements can be very useful in picking the right size rubber for a ride.
thanks again for the link ! up
beer

Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: moparx] #2586698
12/03/18 06:13 PM
12/03/18 06:13 PM
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Strange you would say that about tire sizes being different.... When I first started looking at tires I went to the BF Goodrich Radial TA specs page.
I mounted the tires and something seemed off.. most tire sizes had claimed actual sizes that were 1/4" to 1/2" off what I was actually measuring, and brand to brand were different too. We tried quite a few tires!!!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586831
12/03/18 11:53 PM
12/03/18 11:53 PM
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Posts: 1,506
AZ
Mike P Offline
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Shortly after I got my37 Dodge together I’d mentioned to a friend that I was going with something just a tiny bit shorter and wider on the back. He asked me what size I was changing to and I told him it would be the same size just a different brand and tread.

He didn’t believe me that there was a size difference so I took a couple of pictures. Both tires are mounted on the same rim and have identical tire pressure. even though both tires are 235-70R-15s the new tire is about 1/2" shorter and has about a 3/4” wider contact patch.

235 70 15 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


23570 15 1 by M Patterson, on Flickr


1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
Re: 1958 Dodge Regent [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #2586872
12/04/18 01:50 AM
12/04/18 01:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline OP
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We've noticed the very same thing. Odd. Same tire size but different brand... different measurement.

I am swapping rear ends soon, not sure if a 295/50/15 will fit, but I'm gonna try!!!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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