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1989 318 overheating at idle #2585704
12/01/18 04:06 PM
12/01/18 04:06 PM
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St Louis, MO 63026
convx4 Offline OP
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I have a 1989 318 that is overheating at idle. 173000 miles Haven't driven it because of this. So don't know if it will cool off while driving.

Noticed when I bought the truck that the water pump and timing cover had excess amounts red RTV. Someone was in there.

I replaced the thermostat with a 190 degree. Found a 160 in there.
Replaced the radiator cap with a 16 lb that tested to 14lb.

Used a scope camera to look in the radiator. Not super bad but used radiator flush twice. Camera showed some rtv stuck . Removed radiator and reversed flushed. Now clean and had good flow.

Thought that the wrong water pump could have been installed. Hard to tell with the scope camera. So I removed it. It was a six blade impeller like for a/c. The pump rotation is clockwise.

Opened up the timing chain for inspection. The crank had three keyways. It was set on the center or 0. Both marks on the gears were at 12 o'clock with #1 cyl @ TDC. The marks are 6&12 when #6 cyl is at TDC.

Not reassembled due to not finding a creditable cause.

I did have some moisture puddle under the tailpipe when the truck was running. Don't drive the truck much it a backup. Wanting it to be come a reliable back up.

Also I have a freeze plug on each side showing signs of some leaking.

Would you pull the motor to fix the freeze plugs replace head gaskets and inspect?

Or

Would you just reassemble and replace the thermostat with ones that has a bypass holes drilled it it? The 190 That I installed had the little brass wiggler bypass. Then do compression check to test the head gasket? And go from there.

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585716
12/01/18 04:32 PM
12/01/18 04:32 PM
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savoy64 Offline
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it isnt uncommon for heads to crack on the magnum motor----i would check to see if the radiator has too much pressure---then put a known reliable temp gauge on it....

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585730
12/01/18 04:55 PM
12/01/18 04:55 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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replace the freeze plugs while the coolant is down then button everything back up & take it out & run it. if it starts to overheat before you get up to "speed" pull over & let it cool then continue on. How hot is it getting? confirmed with an accurate gauge or there is no doubt that it is running hot? You said you ain't driven it cuz it is overheating at idle, more info, has it always been like this since you acquired it? #1 what do you have for fan (fixed or clutch)/shroud/fan fore/aft spacing. Your pump is good the rad sounds likely (maybe) good, you replaced the stat & I'll assume it is good (& yes you want an 180 or higher). I'd want at least 15 initial (what do you have?). way less likely is a vac leak & block could be crudded up & a person could pull the freeze plugs & car wash wand blast it out (trailer it to/from) but I would definitely not bother cuz if it is OK at speed then the prob is elsewhere. Short version: if the initial is adequate (& I'm assuming that it is) then IMNHO: radiator/air speed/water speed, in that order. EDIT What Savoy64 said, you can get a "tank valve" from O'reillys for less than $3 & screw it into the coolant temp sensor port (1/8" NPT) & pump it up to 10 lbs & see if it holds. With your tire psi gauge in hand hit the fitting with your air chuck for a split second at a time cuz with coolant in there & little dead air space it will reach 10 psi FAST. You can also put a psi gauge on that port & start it & see if it jumps up somewhat high fairly quick which it will if combustion is leaking into the coolant. Those cheap psi gauges are about $5

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Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/01/18 05:06 PM.

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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585754
12/01/18 05:40 PM
12/01/18 05:40 PM
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An 89 318 is not a magnum engine.

When you say overheating how did you decide that? Does it puke coolant? Or is the dash gauge what you are going by? Or do you have another temp measure device you are using?

Overheating at slow or no vehicle speeds are usually airflow related. Fan clutch, wrong (CCW) fan, gunk in the condenser or radiator, or both. No shroud. Idle is when the engine is least stressed so it is not making as much heat.

I'd double check the cam timing because someone has been in there. Replace all the freeze plus because it one or two are weeping they all will be soon. Put it together, get it running check timing (retarded can cause overheating), look for vacuum leaks (lean can cause overheating) and see what you have.


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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585789
12/01/18 07:14 PM
12/01/18 07:14 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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Correct not a magnum, a LA roller.
The over heating (Boiling over) is after I pull the truck out of the barn and let it idle.

I forgot to mention that this is a Shelby Dakota, it has two 11" electric pusher fans. They both work as should.

Timing is controlled by the computer. The distributor(thing) is set with an initial timing of 10 degrees.

The few times I have driven it the temp would creep up when at a stop.

Last edited by convx4; 12/01/18 07:21 PM.
Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585795
12/01/18 07:32 PM
12/01/18 07:32 PM
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Is there a catalytic converter on the truck still? If so have you checked to see if the exhaust is so clogged it's overheating the engine. I've known it to happen.

I'm assuming you have watched to see if clutch fan is operating properly, otherwise good suggestions from RapidRobert and SuperCuda.


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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585799
12/01/18 07:45 PM
12/01/18 07:45 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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Still has the catalytic converter. The insides are loose and rattling around. Hand on the exhaust has plenty of presser.

My thoughts now are to:

Pull the spark plugs and do a compression check with no coolant in the system.

Reassemble so it can be running again.

Recheck test the compression.

Repair catalytic converter.

Test for overheating.

Thanks for the input everyone. Can anyone see doing some thing different/

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585809
12/01/18 08:06 PM
12/01/18 08:06 PM
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Quote:
The over heating (Boiling over) is after I pull the truck out of the barn and let it idle. The few times I have driven it the temp would creep up when at a stop.
At idle how many minutes till it is boiling? It kinda sounds like airflow except for the fact that it sounds like it is boiling over QUICKLY at idle (plus 10 initial ain't much) but I cant say if that is a problem or not. More just thinking out loud.


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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585815
12/01/18 08:27 PM
12/01/18 08:27 PM
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Does it have a belt driven fan as well as the 2 electrics?

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585819
12/01/18 08:51 PM
12/01/18 08:51 PM
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The 89 Shelby Dakota had no mech fan, too tight to fit. I would make sure the fans are blowing the correct direction. A piece of paper hung in front pof each one in turn will easily verify that. Temp creeping up at a stop tends to verify an airflow problem. I don't know how sensitive the Dak is to air dam presence, some vehicles will not properly cool if the air dam below the radiator support is missing.


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They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585843
12/01/18 09:58 PM
12/01/18 09:58 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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5- 10 minuets and it would over heat by boiling out of the overflow. Got worse the more I ignored it.

The 10 degree is specification on the under hood chart. This setting is what the computer bases the rest of its calibrations upon.

Yes.
I checked the fans with paper before repair also after removing them. Both rotating the same direction. Checked amp draw. One of my fans had the quick connector eliminated, it was hard wired. This fan showed less amp draw. Both were close to each other. I won't mention how big a pain it was to do. One reason I want to get a game plan.

The housing that the fans are in acts like the shroud. I noticed that on the underside, of the duck bill section, on top of the inside of the shroud, looks to have HAD a rubber gasket that would seal to the A/C condenser. There are a few small push in Christmas trees that looked to held the rubber in place. I plan to remake this missing rubber.

The front bumper was also removed during this over heating repair. I cleaned and straighten the fins on the A/C condenser. Also cleaned the oil cooler fins and replaced the 4' of rubber hose Shelby installed. Made hard lines for this.

The lower air dam air deflector support was in place.

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585855
12/01/18 10:19 PM
12/01/18 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted By convx4
5- 10 minuets and it would over heat by boiling out of the overflow.
5-10M from dead cold? To me that sounds like something way more serious than (lack of) air flow.


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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585856
12/01/18 10:24 PM
12/01/18 10:24 PM
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boiling out the overflow is a head gasket leak--or a cracked head----there is test for it...

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: savoy64] #2585859
12/01/18 10:28 PM
12/01/18 10:28 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By savoy64
boiling out the overflow is a head gasket leak--or a cracked head----there is test for it...
I was afraid of that.

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: savoy64] #2585860
12/01/18 10:29 PM
12/01/18 10:29 PM
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^^^ that's what I was thinking. If there is an emissions testing stn closeby you could ask em to stick the probe in the air space below the coolant level & it'll register any hydrocarbons. Easier, I would get the O'reillys $3 fitting & pump it up to 10 psi and or the cheap psi gauge. EDIT meant to say above the coolant level!

Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/02/18 02:36 AM. Reason: missed something

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Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585865
12/01/18 10:41 PM
12/01/18 10:41 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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I have a tester with gauge. Will add this to the lost of things to do.

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585875
12/01/18 11:13 PM
12/01/18 11:13 PM
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Yeah, that quick a puke out the overflow isn't overheating, it's something else. A quick look at teh plugs might narrow down the cylinder.


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They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2585987
12/02/18 03:30 AM
12/02/18 03:30 AM
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yep----the super clean plug is the bad cylinder---steam cleaned...

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2586062
12/02/18 12:32 PM
12/02/18 12:32 PM
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convx4 Offline OP
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Today my plan is to:

Pull the plugs and have a look at them.
Do a compression check with out any coolant in the system.
Reinstall timing cover and water pump.

If a plug looks clean and the pressure in that cylinder is low I'll just start pulling the motor. This will be to address the freeze plugs and possible head gasket.

If the plugs look good (dirty) and cylinder pressure all check ok. I'll finish installing the coolant system and then do a pressure check.

Next I'll go after the catalytic converter and monitor the freeze plugs.

Fingers crossed some something shows the correct path to repair.

Re: 1989 318 overheating at idle [Re: convx4] #2586109
12/02/18 02:05 PM
12/02/18 02:05 PM
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I think today's plan is a good one. Good luck and keep us posted please.


Facts are stubborn things.
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