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#2579898 - 11/18/18 02:55 PM Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
Im planning on installing front Wilwoods, and am getting a Moser Dana 60 with Wilwoods. The rear hard lines will fit fine because Moser has the axle hard lines already installed, but the fronts come with Wilwood's flex line. Does this flex line directly attach to the hardlines, or will I have to make modifications? Also does anyone have a picture of the correct brake line routing? I can't seem to find it in the manual, only the parking brake cable routing. Last question: will the hard lines fit right into the Wilwood master, or do I need longer/shorter lines or different fittings?

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#2579915 - 11/18/18 03:28 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24961
Loc: Oregon
You'll just have to figure it out as you go. Mopar master cylinders use oversize fitting on them to keep people from installing them wrong. Aftermarket stuff like Wilwood don't do that. If you buy an aluminum master cylinder from Doctor Diff then it will have the correct fittings. The Doctor Diff master will also have the correct brake rod retention o-ring. The Wilwood master most likely won't have a brake rod rentention device.

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#2579931 - 11/18/18 04:06 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: AndyF]
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By AndyF
You'll just have to figure it out as you go. Mopar master cylinders use oversize fitting on them to keep people from installing them wrong. Aftermarket stuff like Wilwood don't do that. If you buy an aluminum master cylinder from Doctor Diff then it will have the correct fittings. The Doctor Diff master will also have the correct brake rod retention o-ring. The Wilwood master most likely won't have a brake rod rentention device.

Ok thank you, i pretty much thought I would have to figure it out as i go. And i do plan on going with a Wilwood master though. There are just so many options: 1 or 2 piece front to rear kits, 4 or 5 piece front kits, and each of those have different options. Since there are so many options i figured itd be easier to ask here instead of trying to figure it out myself.

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#2579944 - 11/18/18 04:56 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
One of the big things I don't understand is the different valves/blocks. If I have 12.19" 4 piston brakes in front and 11" 4 pistons out back, do I need any kinds of valves or could I run straight lines since they're all disc and the front rotors are bigger? How exactly does this work?


Edited by Nick Stevanovski (11/18/18 05:51 PM)

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#2580058 - 11/18/18 10:09 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 16018
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
One of the big things I don't understand is the different valves/blocks. If I have 12.19" 4 piston brakes in front and 11" 4 pistons out back, do I need any kinds of valves or could I run straight lines since they're all disc and the front rotors are bigger? How exactly does this work?



Generally when I do a 4 wheel disc set up, no proportioning valve, no distribution block, the rear line directly off the master, the fronts directly off the master with a tee downline to break left/right front, I generally bend/form my own stainless hard lines, you may need an adjustable proportioning valve for the rears if you haven't sized your F/R caliper piston size to create an ideal 60/40 F/R brake bias, worse case scenario I would allow before adding an adjustable PV is a 70/30 F/R bias

FYI, I temporarily install 4 hydraulic gauges one at each line/caliper end when I create a system so that I know exactly what pressure/bias I'm creating, I strongly recommend installing gauges temporarily as you design your system, I use gauges rated to 2000 psi, needed esp on a power assisted system, you can tee the gauges and the bleeder screw directly into the bleeder ports on the calipers, bleed and test the system in one shot...

Mike

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#2580070 - 11/18/18 10:44 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
Sinitro Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5010
Loc: So Cal
NICK...
My suggestion would be to call WilWood direct and talk to Mike Scully.
Mike is head of tech support and can either answer your questions or connect U with the rite guy.. U might want to give him a break before calling as the fires were close by plus U got the Thanksgiving holiday this week.

Just my $0.02... wink

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#2580078 - 11/18/18 11:13 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24961
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
One of the big things I don't understand is the different valves/blocks. If I have 12.19" 4 piston brakes in front and 11" 4 pistons out back, do I need any kinds of valves or could I run straight lines since they're all disc and the front rotors are bigger? How exactly does this work?


Designing a brake system isn't for amateurs! Brake system design is important and it requires some expert knowledge. The front to rear balance has to be correct or else you'll spin the car under hard braking. Typically on a nose heavy muscle car the front brakes will do about 2/3 of the braking and the rears will handle the other 1/3. That means the fronts need to have twice the brake force of the rears. So that is why the fronts have larger rotors and bigger calipers than the rear.

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#2580079 - 11/18/18 11:17 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: DAYCLONA]
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By DAYCLONA
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
One of the big things I don't understand is the different valves/blocks. If I have 12.19" 4 piston brakes in front and 11" 4 pistons out back, do I need any kinds of valves or could I run straight lines since they're all disc and the front rotors are bigger? How exactly does this work?



Generally when I do a 4 wheel disc set up, no proportioning valve, no distribution block, the rear line directly off the master, the fronts directly off the master with a tee downline to break left/right front, I generally bend/form my own stainless hard lines, you may need an adjustable proportioning valve for the rears if you haven't sized your F/R caliper piston size to create an ideal 60/40 F/R brake bias, worse case scenario I would allow before adding an adjustable PV is a 70/30 F/R bias

FYI, I temporarily install 4 hydraulic gauges one at each line/caliper end when I create a system so that I know exactly what pressure/bias I'm creating, I strongly recommend installing gauges temporarily as you design your system, I use gauges rated to 2000 psi, needed esp on a power assisted system, you can tee the gauges and the bleeder screw directly into the bleeder ports on the calipers, bleed and test the system in one shot...

Mike

Wow thank you very much. Thats the most straight to the point answer i think anyones ever seen. I will most likely go the hydraulic gauge route too. If i dont what other way would i be able to find out braking bias? Theyre 12.19” rotors in the front and 11” in the back, all are 4 pistons.

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#2580080 - 11/18/18 11:18 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Sinitro]
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By Sinitro
NICK...
My suggestion would be to call WilWood direct and talk to Mike Scully.
Mike is head of tech support and can either answer your questions or connect U with the rite guy.. U might want to give him a break before calling as the fires were close by plus U got the Thanksgiving holiday this week.

Just my $0.02... wink

I definitely planned on doing that, especially about master cylinder specs for this setup (bore size, etc.).

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#2580081 - 11/18/18 11:32 PM Re: Brake routing 1970 charger wilwood [Re: Nick Stevanovski]
Nick Stevanovski Offline
#1 Thread Starter

Registered: 09/07/18
Posts: 226
Loc: NC
Also, how much does brake line size matter? If im buying repro lines (which im assuming are the same as OE, would that have a negative effect?

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