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HEMI oil consumption? #2345610
07/30/17 10:17 AM
07/30/17 10:17 AM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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I love to read car magazines, I have a collection that includes the first "Super Stock and Drag Illustrated" that I bought in 1968. Reading articles on original, often brand new HEMI cars is interesting.
One item that is mentioned in at least four original articles is oil consumption, lots of it! The worst case was the Ray Brock article in 65' about the single four barrel, 4 speed "rally" car that Chrysler loaned him. With a 4:30 gear, a quart of oil every 150 miles!
Another, on a 69 Charger with 3.54 gear, stated a quart every tank of gas, (200 miles?)
An article in a modern Muscle Cars, issue talks about a 66'Satelite 3.54 gear four speed that slowed? his consumption to a quart every 600 miles by using Royal Tritan straight 60 weight!
I have a HEMI that is strictly cruise/street car. It uses more oil than I like although all clearances, valve seals, intake sealing and spark plug tube, no compression washer on plugs, etc. has been done.
My question is, if you put MILES on your HEMI, have you noticed more oil consumption than a similar build wedge engine?
Or do any of you have any experience, or theory as to why this is? Just curious.
Another thought, If HEMI engines used this amount of oil, how did the early NASCAR teams deal with an engine that turned 7,500 rpm for 500 miles? Also, did the Ford and GM NASCAR engines have oil usage? Being built for this type of racing, I assume clearances etc. were optimized for the continuous high rpm, so as the HEMI was made "street able" in 66', did the "race" clearances/design that caused oil consumption just come along to the street version?
I have found MANY comments about oil consumption being one of the high cost/high maintenance reasons that so few were purchased. The word was out, buy a HEMI and have it worked on all the time and add oil all the time!
Your thoughts, experiances?

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2345644
07/30/17 11:49 AM
07/30/17 11:49 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Online rolleyes
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I have only had 2 Hemis and both sucked oil through the intake gaskets. Never had that problem on any of my wedges. I have fought it and fought it on both Hemis. On the first one, I slowed it down a bit but never got it stopped.

Paper gaskets will let oil wix through them. The Superformance gaskets helped mine a lot.

On my current one (World block, MP Eddy heads) I think I have it slowed to a crawl. Haven't added oil for about 600 miles. But I do notice blue puffs at cold start-up.

Check your intake ports in the heads for oil.


Master, again and still
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2345673
07/30/17 12:39 PM
07/30/17 12:39 PM
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69hemibeep Offline
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No oil consumption here! It does like gas though wink


1969 Hemi Roadrunner 2nd owner
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: 69hemibeep] #2345722
07/30/17 02:55 PM
07/30/17 02:55 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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Back in the 80's when I drove my Hemis quite a bit they seemed to like a quart about every 1,000 miles or so. Loose pistons, so-so gaskets and valve seals I imagine were the cause. No way I ever used a quart of oil per tank of gas however my friend Bruce had an LS7 crate engine in his 67 Corvette and it did use a quart of oil per tank of gas.


Sheldon
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2345727
07/30/17 03:03 PM
07/30/17 03:03 PM
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Sonora CA
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There's not much unique about a HEMI over any other RB. The intake gaskets can leak oil from the valley into the chambers but that's about it. The rest is as has been said: rings, valve guides and seals.

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2345729
07/30/17 03:05 PM
07/30/17 03:05 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Straight bores with standard tension oil rings and good valve stem clearances with good oil seals and sealing up the intake gaskets with gaskets sealer should insure very low oil consumption scope
It has for me on most of the street hemi we drove on the street, both of them shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2345998
07/30/17 11:58 PM
07/30/17 11:58 PM
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Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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When they were new back in the 60's, the street Hemi had low tension Dykes rings from the factory, as well forged pistons set up with a loose fit in the bore. That is a recipe for oil consumption, and Mopar stated as such.

A 426 Hemi with a modern set of rings will use no more oil that any similarly built forged piston, peformance engine.

My green 67 GTX, back when the engine was stock and pretty well worn out would go about 200-300 miles on a quart.

My blue 67 GTX convert that I drove about 5000 miles on the last 2 Drag Week event goes 1200 - 1500 miles on a quart.

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #2577285
11/11/18 10:27 PM
11/11/18 10:27 PM
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Tennessee
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Hemi ragtop Offline OP
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Well I have the heads off and am looking at the bores. I have never seen bores with cross hatch in places and not in others!
It is obvious that the rings could not possibly seal. This was a new,,never run Siamese block, new Diamond pistons and Seal Power Molly rings.
So, it looks like I need to go to 4.375” with a proper bore/hone. Perhaps the block “seasoned” itself in the 8,000 miles of street driving and is now settled down.
I am looking at JE pistons with the high silicone for tight fitting. That will allow the new Edelbrock heads, and etc. So more power? If I am going to go through the whole engine, I might as well end up with more power!

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2577302
11/11/18 11:20 PM
11/11/18 11:20 PM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Before you go into full panic mode, take the block to a machinist that is actually a machinist this time to measure the bores for taper and out of round. You might be able to just have it honed (properly this time) and reringed. After all it only has 8000 miles from new.

Hemi blocks or any others for that matter seem to be made of unobtanium so you don't want to use up the one you have any quicker than necessary.

Kevin

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2577378
11/12/18 01:42 AM
11/12/18 01:42 AM
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s. e. pa.
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hi
have it honed with a torque plate for sure !

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: calrobb2000] #2577385
11/12/18 02:28 AM
11/12/18 02:28 AM
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Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner Offline
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Originally Posted By calrobb2000
hi
have it honed with a torque plate for sure !



If it just needs a hone,you can have the pistons coated to adjust the piston to wall clearance within reason.

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2577443
11/12/18 12:02 PM
11/12/18 12:02 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Where are you at in Tennessee?


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: rickseeman] #2577835
11/13/18 09:20 AM
11/13/18 09:20 AM
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Tennessee
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Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2577886
11/13/18 01:02 PM
11/13/18 01:02 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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I was hoping you were closer. I'm 125 miles southwest of Memphis. If you feel so inclined you could bring your block, pistons, head gasket and head bolts/studs down here and we could find out where you are at. I have a Sunnen CV 616, Sunnen dial bore gage in tenths, Sunnen setting fixture, Mitutoyo profilometer and a torque plate. We could measure where you are now, then hone it until it's clean. Then we could decide if you need pistons or not. Hopefully not. Might have .001" more piston clearance but so what? The profilometer will tell you the surface finish is good. Then I have some Edelbrock heads here that we could put on there to check the intake to cylinder wall clearance. Your fix might all be very easy. And may not really cost you anything.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: rickseeman] #2578275
11/14/18 08:59 AM
11/14/18 08:59 AM
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Tennessee
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Thanks so much! That is very generous and yes I would take you up on it if I were closer. I do have a similar offer here that I am going to take.
There have been many opinions, One being that the 4.5” stroke could be contributing to the problem.
Working on getting the short block out to investigate further.

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2578656
11/15/18 09:12 AM
11/15/18 09:12 AM
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Tennessee
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I had a friend suggest that the 4.5” stroke would make the engine harder to seal, also said that it promoted pre mature wear of the bores.
With a 6.86 rod, my engine has the same ratio as a 454 Chevy, do any of you have an opinion on stroke vs. longevity and oil consumption?
Thanks

Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2578683
11/15/18 12:14 PM
11/15/18 12:14 PM
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Hemi ragtop
I had a friend suggest that the 4.5” stroke would make the engine harder to seal, also said that it promoted pre mature wear of the bores.
With a 6.86 rod, my engine has the same ratio as a 454 Chevy, do any of you have an opinion on stroke vs. longevity and oil consumption?
Thanks


To me, bore geometry and surface finish are way more important than what your friend is saying. I personally don't like to get the piston hanging out the bottom of the bore until you can see the oil ring, but if the ring belt isn't abhorrent and everything else is correct, your combo shouldn't be an issue.

I think most guys are still running too much piston to wall clearance. I've seen stuff come through the shop that was on it's first freshen and it would need to be taken to the next over to save it. Sometimes, you could coat the Pistons and save them for one rebuild.

Now, with the Line2line coating, you can save more stuff that's too loose. The L2L coating is a very good product. I've only seen it used once, but the results were better than expected.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: madscientist] #2579936
11/18/18 07:28 PM
11/18/18 07:28 PM
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OK so I have the engine out. The bores with crosshatch appear to be too big. I can see most of the top compression ring. Plus I have a crack or foundry error in #2.
So I will have a set of Diamond coated 4.350” pistons and Manley H beam 6.86” rods for sale.
Since I will have to bore the engine to clean up the cylenders, I will have to buy new pistons, might as well go to a 7.100 rod to ease the rod ratio with 4.5” crank.

D061D42C-2115-46B9-AF4E-1688C30CB17B.jpeg57CA8E4E-4AA1-4012-980F-195D3BE1BF32.jpeg2DD5D16E-85FF-438E-A705-195DEF25C723.jpeg
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2580067
11/19/18 01:40 AM
11/19/18 01:40 AM
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madscientist Offline
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You should be able to use Line2Line coatings on those pistons and save some money. Unless you want to change parts.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: HEMI oil consumption? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2580096
11/19/18 04:18 AM
11/19/18 04:18 AM
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I think you need to sonic test that area that looks bad in that cylinder, maybe even have it pressure tested in that cylinder also work twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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