Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
#2560354
10/07/18 02:17 PM
10/07/18 02:17 PM
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larrymopar360
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Were they just deemed unnecessary, or are they just saving money? If my old hose had one I would have transferred it.
I think there's a possibility the hose may have collapsed a couple times in my Power Wagon while in traffic on hot day. Gauge shot up. Everything new including hoses, max cooling rad, milodon thermostat, milodon water pump, block flushed, new freeze plugs, and coolant distilled water mix. I couldn't get out and look at hose in traffic. I guess gauge could be faulty but temps went right back down when traffic started moving again.
Why did they remove springs?
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2560430
10/07/18 06:16 PM
10/07/18 06:16 PM
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RapidRobert
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Gauge shot up. I guess gauge could be faulty but temps went right back down when traffic started moving again. Electric gauges? I'm thinking just normal temp bump from less air/water flow at idle.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2560901
10/08/18 02:58 PM
10/08/18 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,232 Chicago, IL
PLUM_72
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So can one buy a replacement spring to put in a lower hose, if you wanted one?
1972 Dodge Challenger
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: PLUM_72]
#2560924
10/08/18 03:26 PM
10/08/18 03:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
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318 Stroker
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So can one buy a replacement spring to put in a lower hose, if you wanted one? I went to the local auto parts stores and bought a universal corrugated hose with a spring in it for 10.00. Pulled it and installed in my hose.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2560949
10/08/18 04:14 PM
10/08/18 04:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,319 St. Louis, Mo
318 Stroker
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Were they just deemed unnecessary, or are they just saving money? If my old hose had one I would have transferred it.
I think there's a possibility the hose may have collapsed a couple times in my Power Wagon while in traffic on hot day. Gauge shot up. Everything new including hoses, max cooling rad, milodon thermostat, milodon water pump, block flushed, new freeze plugs, and coolant distilled water mix. I couldn't get out and look at hose in traffic. I guess gauge could be faulty but temps went right back down when traffic started moving again.
Why did they remove springs? It is my understanding that cooling issues in the conditions you describe is a cooling system issue, and that the high temps on the highway are related to the lower hose collapsing.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2560986
10/08/18 05:25 PM
10/08/18 05:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
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HemiRick
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the 15 psi inside a proper cooling system should easily keep the hose from collapsing.
Take care, Rick 68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2561030
10/08/18 07:10 PM
10/08/18 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,232 Chicago, IL
PLUM_72
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(sarcastic statement) Is this something they look for when judging a vehicle at the concours level?
1972 Dodge Challenger
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: PLUM_72]
#2561087
10/08/18 09:37 PM
10/08/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: May 2005
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cbusters
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(sarcastic statement) Is this something they look for when judging a vehicle at the concours level? Its called the Charmin Test. It is in the Judging Guide, look it up.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2561092
10/08/18 09:46 PM
10/08/18 09:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Supercuda
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if your lower hose is collapsing your problem is not lack of a spring. It is something else.
Why does it collapse and what causes the condition needed? It's not lack of a spring.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: HemiRick]
#2561093
10/08/18 09:46 PM
10/08/18 09:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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the 15 psi inside a proper cooling system should easily keep the hose from collapsing. I'm pretty sure that's not how it works There is only 15 psi in the entire system when the temperature is quite high. At 180 degrees there is a few psi on the output side of the water pump (that's what moves the coolant through the radiator, heads, block...) but the inlet side can very well be under suction. A lower hose collapses because it's being sucked in, which by definition means there is negative pressure inside it. Now if there's a restriction in a clogged-up radiator, it's even more likely that the water pump will have vacuum at its inlet (the lower hose)...
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2561210
10/09/18 01:05 AM
10/09/18 01:05 AM
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RapidRobert
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If the no spring is causing it to overheat at idle/low speed I would think it would be worse at high speed on the highway (with higher suction on the hose if that is linear) & he says it is OK then.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2561372
10/09/18 01:01 PM
10/09/18 01:01 PM
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jlatessa
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: BDW]
#2561473
10/09/18 04:17 PM
10/09/18 04:17 PM
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BlueRacer69
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I also got 1 from CJ Pony, cheap and easy and it works. So did I. Around $7 bucks if I remember right.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: 5thAve]
#2561947
10/10/18 02:58 PM
10/10/18 02:58 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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be sure to turn the ends inward toward the center.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: 318 Stroker]
#2562138
10/10/18 09:21 PM
10/10/18 09:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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So can one buy a replacement spring to put in a lower hose, if you wanted one? I went to the local auto parts stores and bought a universal corrugated hose with a spring in it for 10.00. Pulled it and installed in my hose. That's what I did when I pulled the old spring out and it was rusted as #$%^
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2605419
01/12/19 03:13 PM
01/12/19 03:13 PM
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larrymopar360
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My brand new lower hose on my Power Powagon collapsed while idling in traffic on hot day here in Florida. First time I've had this happen. I noticed when temp gauge shot up and I popped hood and no leaks anywhere. New radiator, milodon water pump, thermostat....everthing is new in cooling system so I figured it might be that.
Also, I've noticed our Charger police cars have spring in upper hoses (reverse flow I guess?), so that kind of defeats the theory they were for factory fill purposes.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2605423
01/12/19 03:18 PM
01/12/19 03:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
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Also, I've noticed our Charger police cars have spring in upper hoses (reverse flow I guess?), so that kind of defeats the theory they were for factory fill purposes.
Go back and think about what you just said.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2605453
01/12/19 04:04 PM
01/12/19 04:04 PM
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larrymopar360
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Also, I've noticed our Charger police cars have spring in upper hoses (reverse flow I guess?), so that kind of defeats the theory they were for factory fill purposes.
Go back and think about what you just said. Not very helpful. If I missed something, excuse me! Can you just clear it up for me? Admittedly, I'm not a genius and might have missed something. But, I believe someone wrote they DON'T use springs anymore because they have a different method for factory fill, and that's what the springs were originally for, and NOT for eliminating collapsing hoses during consumer use.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2605456
01/12/19 04:09 PM
01/12/19 04:09 PM
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larrymopar360
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My Power Wagon runs very cool otherwise. Engine runs great, and it will cruise all day long on the highway at 70mph, and will run in traffic for hours no problem. But that one time on a very hot day, bam, temp shot up and the lower hose was sunk in.
I've done a ton of work on this engine. Just about everything but piston rings. It's had complete valve job, new cam and lifters, radiator, freeze plugs, timing chain, water pump, thermostat, hoses, belts, plugs, wires, ignition, timing set, headers, dual exhausts. It's squared away. I've since bypassed heater since core is at rad shop right now being repaired.
It did not overheat in traffic that time because of something else. I'm going to get a spring for lower hose (or wire if you want to be technical). Thank you to those with helpful answers.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 01/12/19 04:12 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: StukaJU87]
#2605460
01/12/19 04:14 PM
01/12/19 04:14 PM
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larrymopar360
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My truck is '79 with Max Cooling and HUGE lower hose.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2605463
01/12/19 04:19 PM
01/12/19 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Here’s my non-scientific pragmatic approach to it......
I’ve seen numerous vehicles through the years suffer from the “bottom hose sucked shut/engine runs hot” scenario........ where adding the “spring” fixed it.
It’s a cheap and easy thing to try........ if it doesn’t help, you’re not out much time or money. If it does...... it was a simple cost effect solution.
If you’re having issues with the lower hose getting sucked shut..... it certainly can’t hurt anything to try adding the spring.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2605690
01/13/19 12:46 AM
01/13/19 12:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Coil, not spring.
If your hose is collapsing, that means the pump is evacuating coolant from the hose that is not being replaced from the radiator. Why not? Because the system has restriction(s) that is/are not allowing for adequate flow-----most likely the radiator, but it could be inherent design restrictions. Best to check for good flow.
If you are familiar with fluid pumps, a hose used on the suction side is very rigid, in order to prevent what we are talking about, but that's an open system---it doesn't loop under pressure like our systems do.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2605715
01/13/19 01:37 AM
01/13/19 01:37 AM
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RapidRobert
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^^^ I learned something! I would add it, from a rod of stainless welding rod (maybe gratis at a welding shop) & continue the search if things are running too hot. #1 accurate gauge #2A too hot at idle/low speeds or 2B to hot out on the highway. & if so then what parts (shroud/stat etc) are you running? & rad might be partly plugged EDIT a partly clooged rad might not show up at low speeds but more likely will at high speeds so if it is OK at high speeds then it ain't the rad.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 01/13/19 01:46 PM. Reason: more thought/bored
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2606089
01/13/19 08:13 PM
01/13/19 08:13 PM
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larrymopar360
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moparx and Montclaire I agree.
I appreciate the help from all and I know it's kind of a long thread so I don't think all read all my posts. The radiator is brand new. Now I suppose a brand new radiator could be clogged, but as I also wrote and pictured, I had the engine out, freeze plugs out, water pump out and flushed the block out, bypassed heater core. Yes, factory shroud in tact.
It never runs HOT on highway nor idling all but that one time, and I now have 800 miles on it since engine out. I don't think the temp gauge is dead on, but it's close. It just shot up that one day in very hot weather in very bad traffic. And it did immediately drop back down as we moved on.
RapidRobert; stainless welding rod. Um, good idea.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: moparx]
#2606097
01/13/19 08:29 PM
01/13/19 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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as easy as it is to fab and install, the spring [or whatever you want to call it] in the lower hose can't hurt anything, especially if you have a long section of straight hose, and if there may be some trouble getting all the air out of the system. just my opinion, and i could be [more than likely !] wrong. wouldn't be the first time ! Pieces of rusty coil have been known to find their way to water pumps, sharp ends have pierced hoses...it IS possible for things to go wrong. Stainless steel is advised. I once used an antenna-----that was a beech to coil up!!!
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2606240
01/14/19 12:42 AM
01/14/19 12:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Larry did you do that blue paint job? Good job!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Why did they stop with springs in lower rad hoses?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2606435
01/14/19 01:55 PM
01/14/19 01:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,342 north of coder
moparx
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"Butt Crack Bob"
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as easy as it is to fab and install, the spring [or whatever you want to call it] in the lower hose can't hurt anything, especially if you have a long section of straight hose, and if there may be some trouble getting all the air out of the system. just my opinion, and i could be [more than likely !] wrong. wouldn't be the first time ! Pieces of rusty coil have been known to find their way to water pumps, sharp ends have pierced hoses...it IS possible for things to go wrong. Stainless steel is advised. I once used an antenna-----that was a beech to coil up!!! you are absolutely correct !! i should have been more specific, as i use a stainless wire every time i do this. so, to those that are "rollin' 'em at home", use stainless wire to do so ! .075 wire or so. don't go TOO large, as it will NOT be "fun" to wind over whatever you use to fit into your hose. also, remember the wire will relax to a bigger size after it is wrapped around ??? to form the coil, so take that into consideration as well. make sure you bend the coil ends to roughly a 90 degree inward, so as to prevent the ends from damaging the hose when you wind it in.
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