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Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2622437
02/17/19 02:29 AM
02/17/19 02:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Please tell me you don't use that air filter on it.
14 X 4 " should be minimum.
I'd even look at a 6" tall element if you have to run a filter.

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: BradH] #2622609
02/17/19 05:36 PM
02/17/19 05:36 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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Dragula  Offline OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Dragula
And so the upgrades are starting to come together...Heads will stay the same for now...My next build is hopefully a procharger motor...

You're leaving a significant amount of power on the table by not spending any money on the heads. I guess I don't understand what your goal is, since it seems to have changed from the original post.


5's is still the goal ....We weren't far off last year, and with a burnt head gasket and blown header tube, there should be some power left on the table. But yes, heads were what we originally wanted to do, but I think we will change it up more next year and with a procharger, we don't need super good heads.

Money was the other decision. New heads were outside the budget, and the porting quotes I got seemed pretty high to me. So we went with new pistons and head gaskets to get a little closer to max compression. We will be starting the season on 50/50 race fuel and getting everything dialed in from there.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: tubtar] #2622614
02/17/19 05:42 PM
02/17/19 05:42 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted By tubtar
Please tell me you don't use that air filter on it.
14 X 4 " should be minimum.
I'd even look at a 6" tall element if you have to run a filter.


Were I am pitted its like a sandbox and I have fenderwell headers that kick all that stuff up. I originally bought that to fit the Hemi, but I will have cut the intake down or switch intakes for it to fit the hemi. So, I have not raced the Duster with an air cleaner, but I am changing the hood this year to a forward facing scoop, and that might fit right in the scoop. I am worried about getting crap in there....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2622722
02/17/19 10:43 PM
02/17/19 10:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By Dragula
Originally Posted By tubtar
Please tell me you don't use that air filter on it.
14 X 4 " should be minimum.
I'd even look at a 6" tall element if you have to run a filter.


Were I am pitted its like a sandbox and I have fenderwell headers that kick all that stuff up. I originally bought that to fit the Hemi, but I will have cut the intake down or switch intakes for it to fit the hemi. So, I have not raced the Duster with an air cleaner, but I am changing the hood this year to a forward facing scoop, and that might fit right in the scoop. I am worried about getting crap in there....

you definitely need to run a air cleaner, there is power in straightening out the airflow up devil trust me on this, testing on the engine dyno and again at the track has shown me as well as many others about this scope
Drop base air cleaners are the answer to carb. to hood problems scope up 16x3 inch elements works very well on 512 + C.I. motors with excess of 750 HP thumbs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2622854
02/18/19 11:24 AM
02/18/19 11:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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back in Georgia
I didn't see it if you said it had to be na. I'd put a plate kit on it as is and presto. Pump gas works pretty good with spray to a point. Also the cheapest option.

More compression would help too, at least at the track where the motor will be working in higher rpms. The cheapo 93 pump with 10 percent ethanol works better than straight gas high test

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2622868
02/18/19 12:15 PM
02/18/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
I'm curious about the prices you were quoted for porting your heads, what the quotes included, and why you think they were "pretty high".

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2622999
02/18/19 05:55 PM
02/18/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
Originally Posted By Dragula
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Dragula
And so the upgrades are starting to come together...Heads will stay the same for now...My next build is hopefully a procharger motor...

You're leaving a significant amount of power on the table by not spending any money on the heads. I guess I don't understand what your goal is, since it seems to have changed from the original post.


5's is still the goal ....We weren't far off last year, and with a burnt head gasket and blown header tube, there should be some power left on the table. But yes, heads were what we originally wanted to do, but I think we will change it up more next year and with a procharger, we don't need super good heads.

Money was the other decision. New heads were outside the budget, and the porting quotes I got seemed pretty high to me. So we went with new pistons and head gaskets to get a little closer to max compression. We will be starting the season on 50/50 race fuel and getting everything dialed in from there.





But if you go to a 50/50 mix it won't be a pump gas combo anymore. All those years of insisting on being pump gas and you probably could have ran a 5 five years ago if you weren't so stubborn. LOL. But then again aren't we all Stubborn in our own ways. I know I am.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: pittsburghracer] #2623091
02/18/19 10:42 PM
02/18/19 10:42 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
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Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By Dragula
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Dragula
And so the upgrades are starting to come together...Heads will stay the same for now...My next build is hopefully a procharger motor...

You're leaving a significant amount of power on the table by not spending any money on the heads. I guess I don't understand what your goal is, since it seems to have changed from the original post.


5's is still the goal ....We weren't far off last year, and with a burnt head gasket and blown header tube, there should be some power left on the table. But yes, heads were what we originally wanted to do, but I think we will change it up more next year and with a procharger, we don't need super good heads.

Money was the other decision. New heads were outside the budget, and the porting quotes I got seemed pretty high to me. So we went with new pistons and head gaskets to get a little closer to max compression. We will be starting the season on 50/50 race fuel and getting everything dialed in from there.





But if you go to a 50/50 mix it won't be a pump gas combo anymore. All those years of insisting on being pump gas and you probably could have ran a 5 five years ago if you weren't so stubborn. LOL. But then again aren't we all Stubborn in our own ways. I know I am.


Well stubborn, and cheap at times....At least I got rid of the purple cam...


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631239
03/10/19 09:42 PM
03/10/19 09:42 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
New valve train solved a lot of my push rod issues....So hopefully we will have a much better race season. The rockers I had were ok on a 440 block, but on a 400, the push rods were rubbing. Also switched to a Flow cooler mechanical water pump over the Mopar one, a new Milidon oil pump, and a few other small things...

Now with new Comp Cams rockers, and Manton push rods, life is good again. Ready for race season.... Had to lathe some material off all the spacers and the top hold downs to fit, but once I clearanced all of them, it went together perfectly. Car goes for paint work next..

DSC05613-1.jpgDSC05614-1.jpgDSC05615-1.jpg
Last edited by Dragula; 03/10/19 09:48 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631335
03/11/19 08:25 AM
03/11/19 08:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
WHY are you still running a mechanical water pump? With an ET goal in mind, that ought to be the first thing to go.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631371
03/11/19 10:37 AM
03/11/19 10:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,237
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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Posts: 19,237
north of coder
what was the difference between the flowcooler and mopar water pump ?
beer

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631400
03/11/19 11:44 AM
03/11/19 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 288
Nevada
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merpar Offline
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Nevada
Those comp cams rockers, are they bushed? If not I would not run them. Steel on steel will gaul with roller cam spring pressures. Without thinking I ran a set years ago, comp cams. only .625 lift. Got one pass and several of the rockers were gauled. You might want to think about it!

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: moparx] #2631404
03/11/19 11:49 AM
03/11/19 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted by moparx
what was the difference between the flowcooler and mopar water pump ?
beer

Flo-Kooler pumps have the anti cavitation plate on the impeller and move more water. I ran one for a while, nice piece.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2631466
03/11/19 03:01 PM
03/11/19 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Porting your heads will probably get you to your goal. You can try tightening the lash also, that might be worth something if the cam duration is less than 280 @ .050. Any place to scrub a pound or two off? Every pound is worth about .001 ET.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: merpar] #2631509
03/11/19 05:46 PM
03/11/19 05:46 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
WHY are you still running a mechanical water pump? With an ET goal in mind, that ought to be the first thing to go.


Cause it fits, and when I upgrade the electric 35gpm one on the Hemi this year with a 55gpm pump, I will have one...I can put on there. I am sure I will have to make all special spacers to make it all fit though. Winter has been too cold to do it now.

Originally Posted by merpar
Those comp cams rockers, are they bushed? If not I would not run them. Steel on steel will gaul with roller cam spring pressures. Without thinking I ran a set years ago, comp cams. only .625 lift. Got one pass and several of the rockers were gauled. You might want to think about it!


Rockers are bushed....I like them a lot so far. Wouldn't use them if they weren't bushed.

Originally Posted by gregsdart
Porting your heads will probably get you to your goal. You can try tightening the lash also, that might be worth something if the cam duration is less than 280 @ .050. Any place to scrub a pound or two off? Every pound is worth about .001 ET.


We will be looking in to it next year. Heads are fresh and ready to go.....Prices for porting were pretty high I thought, only so much money to go around.....

bra-1679.jpg
Last edited by Dragula; 03/11/19 05:56 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631595
03/11/19 09:02 PM
03/11/19 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I understand on the money thing. The mrs just bought furniture, so my budget is shot!


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631707
03/12/19 08:18 AM
03/12/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Use a "drop-in" style pump that fits in the factory housing, then all you'll need is a short belt.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631872
03/12/19 12:50 PM
03/12/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
My old pump gas Duster ran 10.69 ET at 124. MPH with the original set of ported big valve 906 heads, swapping the heads to a set of MCH CNC ported Eddy RPM heads picked it up to 10.40s at 127.MPH. I ended up swapping out the 4.250 stroke crank to a 4.300 to raise the compression ratio from 9.25 to 1 to 10.3 to 1 and that help it run in the 10.30s, the final change to that motor was changing the heads again to a set of Indy SR M.W. ports with a single Indy 400-3 with Holley 1050 CFM Dominator. The heads where 9.0 CC smaller than the Eddy RPM so that raised the compression ratio up to 10.8 to 1.
Those changes ended up with a best of 9.993 at 134.8 MPH with the air cleaner and full exhaust system on and hooked upboogie


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: Dragula] #2631947
03/12/19 03:41 PM
03/12/19 03:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154
Canada
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cuda499 Offline
member
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member
C

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154
Canada
one more point of compression and a nice solid roller.....

Re: Dragula's Quest for the 5's....on Pump Gas [Re: cuda499] #2664611
06/10/19 11:47 PM
06/10/19 11:47 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline OP
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Well first two outings and car is working and running great....I have not hit my goal of running 5's, but I have not had to pull the valve covers even once...That means the new valve train is holding up really well.

So far fastest pass is a 6.13...No where near 5.99 I want, but its a work in progress. Was hoping for a little quicker out of the gate, but it will get faster. 60ft is now down to a 1.34 consistently.

Things I have learned is the new combo likes more rear tire pressure and more fuel. So I am homing in on both right now. Still tinkering with the timing and carb fuel pressure too....

And its not currently on pump gas, but in the future, I will be going back to 93, but with water/meth injection....So right now I am running C12/108 and when I get back to work somewhere, I will spring for the Snow kit...

And here is a more up to date picture...

6.17 Pass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfyZYITsKNA&t=22s
6.18 Pass 1st round loss -.038 red
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZAorsZxu0Q


DSC05753-1.jpg
Last edited by Dragula; 06/10/19 11:53 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
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