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Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550602
09/16/18 01:20 PM
09/16/18 01:20 PM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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Here is the blower setup with the top off.

20180912_134554.jpg20180912_134616.jpg
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550604
09/16/18 01:23 PM
09/16/18 01:23 PM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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And here is what I built.

20180912_145619.jpg20180912_145921.jpg
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550607
09/16/18 01:28 PM
09/16/18 01:28 PM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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AeroMonte  Offline OP
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Here it is assembled

20180731_142100.jpg
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550655
09/16/18 04:06 PM
09/16/18 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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That'll work.

Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550662
09/16/18 04:23 PM
09/16/18 04:23 PM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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Thanks Rich.

Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2550678
09/16/18 05:09 PM
09/16/18 05:09 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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Here's what we did. Same approach just less plumbing:

https://www.fastmanefi.com/photos?lightbox=dataItem-jjqb0gk7



Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2551315
09/17/18 11:27 PM
09/17/18 11:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 486
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knyech1 Offline
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Originally Posted By AeroMonte
I am doing a Hellcat swap into a 71 Barracuda as you all know. I am using a Holley EFI computer and harness. The original blow off for the supercharger uses a Jeep throttle body that is controlled by the computer to relieve pressure back into the intake. The Holley system cannot duplicate this function. What I have worked out, and I am no engineer, is a vacuum controlled turbo blow off valve that is plumbed back to the intake just behind the engines throttle body into an extension we fabricated. Will this work or am I overlooking something? By moving the throttle body 6-8 inches farther away from the intake, will that affect anything? I've thought about this so much I am starting to second guess myself. I know one of you out there understands I hope and can explain the technical stuff for me.


AeroMonte,
I hate to say it but this seems like a wasted effort. While the supercharger might use the same size throttle body as a particular Jeep application, the logic is reversed. It is essentially programmed inverse of the inlet throttle body, so when the inlet tb sees ~4.8V it is completely open and when the bypass tb sees ~4.8V it is completely closed. Even the Whipple 4.5L supercharger for the Hellcat/Demon utilizes the stock bypass valve.

The reason that FCA does it this way is so they can program the bypass tb to completely close at a certain throttle position to build boost when they want, and when you let off the throttle, the bypass will snap open, recirculating the compressed air. "E-actuators" are the new age of wastegate actuators are the same way. The Eaton/Magnuson/Edelbrock roots superchargers use a more simple (and less expensive) pressure pneumatic actuator with a light spring that it has to overcome. It works, but isn't programmable like the one on the Hellcat/Demon superchargers.

Again, the factory system would have worked just fine.


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2553098
09/21/18 11:19 PM
09/21/18 11:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 68
Southern Michigan
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mike_coates Offline
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The system will work if it is like you described. The vacuum source needs to come from after the inlet air TB. Vacuum is created when the throttle is closed, thus opening the bypass valve to reduce parasitic losses at idle or part throttle. It isn’t controlable like the factor e-bypass but it works well. The e-bypass allows the oem to manage boost to tailor the torque curve to their liking. With the added length in the ducting, Inlet pressure will be a little lower which will affect the vacuum response a litle on throttle closing. The long bypas duct will affect response also.
The valve does act as a blow off valve. It is a bypass to reduce losses. But if it fails, the unit will have a high chance of failure. A closed throttle with a closed bypass can heat up the unit and seize it in seconds especially at high speeds.
If someone is making an ecu for the hellcat, it should include the control of the bypass, IMO.


'70 Swinger 340
'91 Dakota
'72 Challenger
'05 Ram
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2553533
09/23/18 09:57 AM
09/23/18 09:57 AM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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The vacuum is fed from the black rubber hose at the stock location just behind the intake inlet tube I made. This car will not be raced, just a fun cruiser. It will have a couple of dyno pulls on it though just to see where it's at and to fine tune it. I can change it back later if Holley refines their system to use the stock set up. Thanks everybody for your input.

Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2553714
09/23/18 05:08 PM
09/23/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 33
Northern California
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According to Ray Barton's shop, the Dominator can do just about anything you need it to do. Personally, I chose the Mopar, unlocked PCM and wiring harness for my build. It's MADE for the Hellcat; it's unlocked and can be tuned (what's not to love). Much more simple arrangement and cleaner under the hood. Whatever the choice, your car is going to be an absolute beast given how much less it weighs compared to the factory cars they come in.

Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2553721
09/23/18 05:17 PM
09/23/18 05:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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I used ms3 gold box/harnesses on all my hemi swaps. I don't know if they have them available with a program for hellcats, if not, surely they will eventually. Around 1300 for all and fully tuneable. I don't understand why people spend so much more to use a stock ecm and custom made harness of other more expensive options.


68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2553813
09/23/18 08:32 PM
09/23/18 08:32 PM
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S.E. Missouri
AeroMonte Offline OP
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We used the Holley EFI because we have experience with it on other cars and the automatic trans can also be programmed with it. It has been a very easy swap other than this BOV issue, which I just wanted to be sure that I have it right. The Hellcat presents a few issues that other G3 swaps don't have and I have two other people helping with input on this build.

Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: Silver70] #2553856
09/23/18 10:24 PM
09/23/18 10:24 PM
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Northern California
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In my case, I don't like all the smaller company systems that are out there where in a few years, they may not support it any more or they may even not exist. I was going to use the Dominator until Mopar came out with the Hellcrate and the ECU / wiring harness to go with it. Unlocked and fully programmable. With what's being done by guys like HemiTuner on the factory stuff, well, that's good enough for me. Keeps my car all Mopar too. The only stuff on my car that's not Mopar are my TTI headers; Baer brakes and custom Moroso oil pan. Oh, and AlterKtion front suspension. I'm and old "old school" guy, so that pleases me.



Originally Posted By Silver70
I used ms3 gold box/harnesses on all my hemi swaps. I don't know if they have them available with a program for hellcats, if not, surely they will eventually. Around 1300 for all and fully tuneable. I don't understand why people spend so much more to use a stock ecm and custom made harness of other more expensive options.

Last edited by B5 Classic; 09/25/18 03:45 PM.
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: B5 Classic] #2554298
09/25/18 12:11 AM
09/25/18 12:11 AM
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Posts: 486
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Originally Posted By B5 Classic
In my case, I don't like all the smaller company systems that are out there where in a few years, they may not support it any more or they may even not exist. I was going to use the Dominator until Mopar came out with the Hellcrate and the ECU / wiring harness to go with it. Unlocked and fully programmable. With what's being done by guys like HemiTuner on the factory stuff, well, that's good enough for me. Keeps my car all Mopar too. The only stuff on my car that's not Mopar are my TTI heads; Baer brakes and custom Moroso oil pan. Oh, and AlterKtion front suspension. I'm and old "old school" guy, so that pleases me.



Originally Posted By Silver70
I used ms3 gold box/harnesses on all my hemi swaps. I don't know if they have them available with a program for hellcats, if not, surely they will eventually. Around 1300 for all and fully tuneable. I don't understand why people spend so much more to use a stock ecm and custom made harness of other more expensive options.


B5 Classic, MegaSquirt has been around since 2001. For a long time, that was the choice of ECU for the Drag Week guys because you could build the box yourself and build in your own features. You can make it exotic or simple, and either way it costs far less than a Holley or similar setup. There is a MASSIVE following and awesome support either from DIYAutotune or on the MS forums/groups. The support isn't getting anything but better every day. I personally use an MS2 Extra ECU and it has all the fancy stuff that Holley, FAST, FITech, Mopar, etc have. Auto tune, customizable VE and AFR tables, AE enrichment, all the bells and whistles and it cost me $750. The MS3 Gold Gold Box and Harness kit was made specifically for the Hellcat. Remember that Mopar especially has to get their 400% markup for anything they sell.


knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.
Re: Hellcat help, someone smart explain [Re: AeroMonte] #2554333
09/25/18 01:53 AM
09/25/18 01:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70 Offline
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Don't forget they are made in the USA also. I'd bet the customer support is better than the rest too.


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