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Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2306739
05/18/17 02:28 PM
05/18/17 02:28 PM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Warren, MI
coil near plug.

I think if your injecting far enough up the intake or at the head interface where its convenient different injector spray patterns create minimal difference in peak performance. after this cost plays a big part for very little gain and return on investment for the average user.


Superior Design Concepts
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Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2306839
05/18/17 04:36 PM
05/18/17 04:36 PM
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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Sonora CA
CNP will be dirt easy now, because Andy has both crank and cam sensors for most BB and SB Mopars. No more ignition box, no dizzy, almost no electrical noise, and then you can adjust both fuel and timing for each cylinder. Racers with EGT love it.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: Mopar_Rich] #2306956
05/18/17 07:48 PM
05/18/17 07:48 PM
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Posts: 2,842
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Pattison Texas
Thanks Rich for the advice today on the Fast EFI Classic, you were a GREAT help!!!!

Charlie


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2307239
05/19/17 09:28 AM
05/19/17 09:28 AM
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Posts: 153
MI, USA
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CnP = Coil-Near-Plug. Similar to G3 hemi which has coil-on-plug.

Andy's setup will have the coils mounted near the plugs (maybe on the valve covers or located in an array on a bracket somewhere) with short plug wire leads for each.

Essentially, there will be 8 coils with short plug leads, 1 for for each cylinder.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2307248
05/19/17 10:17 AM
05/19/17 10:17 AM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Nice work and great accomplishment!


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2307253
05/19/17 10:28 AM
05/19/17 10:28 AM
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Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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I have heard the farther up the runner you place the injector the more power you will make. But I think the gains are small and come with added work on the drive ability part of the tune.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: moparmitch] #2307295
05/19/17 12:16 PM
05/19/17 12:16 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline OP
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Originally Posted By moparmitch
CnP = Coil-Near-Plug. Similar to G3 hemi which has coil-on-plug.

Andy's setup will have the coils mounted near the plugs (maybe on the valve covers or located in an array on a bracket somewhere) with short plug wire leads for each.

Essentially, there will be 8 coils with short plug leads, 1 for for each cylinder.


Yep, I'm still trying to figure it out. For the dyno engine I think I'll mount the coils on brackets on the valve covers. In the car I might put the coils on the frame rails or something like that.

The nice thing about the CnP setup is that you get rid of the MSD box, the big coil the distributor and a bunch of ignition wires. From a performance standpoint, each coil only has 1/8th of the job that the big coil had before. At 7000 rpm and 15:1 compression the MSD ignition had to really work.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2307306
05/19/17 12:34 PM
05/19/17 12:34 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Let me know if you want to try some 5.7 hemi coils.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2308277
05/21/17 12:47 AM
05/21/17 12:47 AM
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Oregon
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I'm going to run the Holley smart coils which I think are basically an LS1 type coil.


Here is a video of us warming up the 514 on the dyno. If you look closely you can see the custom cam sync and crank trigger and other EFI parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CdKlTMNGp4

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2331472
07/04/17 05:25 PM
07/04/17 05:25 PM
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Oregon
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One thing I noticed recently when I was going over the data is that the carb made 50 hp more than EFI at 5000 rpm. At peak power the EFI config made more power than the carb. I'm not sure what to think about the 50 hp difference at 5000 rpm, could be some sort of wave thing that happened for some reason. The intake was the same but perhaps the carb was just doing a better job at that RPM than the throttle body?

Attached PDF document
EFI v Carb.pdf (166 downloads)
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2331512
07/04/17 06:49 PM
07/04/17 06:49 PM
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Posts: 14,478
So. Burlington, Vt.
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When I try and open the attachment all I get is " network connection is lost"


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2331517
07/04/17 07:05 PM
07/04/17 07:05 PM
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Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Here ya go

curve.JPG
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: sgcuda] #2331740
07/05/17 02:06 AM
07/05/17 02:06 AM
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Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave Offline
The Ultimate
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Mopar Country, Mi
Very cool work Andy up

All of the COPO cars we build run Holley EFI systems. I will ask a few of the guys at the shop what they think of the dip in the chart and let you know what they say beer

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2332916
07/07/17 05:18 AM
07/07/17 05:18 AM
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Brisvegas, Australia
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Brisvegas, Australia
An article in a local Mag years ago had a story on a guy who did his PHD on intake design and injector placement. I cant give numbers but on the same length intake runners - long fiberglass cones, he dyno'ed 3 positions, the most HP was with the injector close as possible to the head, but the most torque was with the furthest placed injector, the middle funnily enough was a mix of the 2, from memory the furthest out was around 14 inches, the gains were more than dyno variance - double digits on a 4.0L straight 6 @280hp

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2553262
09/22/18 03:25 PM
09/22/18 03:25 PM
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Oregon
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I got the 514 back on the dyno this week with the new coil on plug setup. This uses the Holley 558-117 universal COP main harness. We had some issues with plugged injectors due to the Q16 fuel, but eventually got it all sorted out. Engine made 880 hp on C14 fuel which was pretty good. COP runs nice but the wiring is a little more complicated. Getting rid of the distributor can be an advantage on a BB Mopar since the distributor can get in the way sometimes.

DSC_2982 (Large).JPG
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2571439
10/30/18 03:49 AM
10/30/18 03:49 AM
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Oregon
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I looked back and saw that this thread started in 2010 so it contains 8 years of history. Hard to remember how many different cams, intakes, carbs, etc. have been tested on this engine. And now it is time for me to wrap up the story. The engine is on the shipping crate ready to go to a new home. The new owner plans to drop it in his race car and hit the track so her days as a dyno mule appear to be over.

DSC_3100 (Large).JPG
Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2571456
10/30/18 08:17 AM
10/30/18 08:17 AM
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Mo.
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That's cool up wonder if the new owner is a member here? Will be cool to here the #'s in a race car with it.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2571591
10/30/18 01:41 PM
10/30/18 01:41 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
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S.E. Michigan
Had a great run with that one, good luck to the new owner.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: ZIPPY] #2571605
10/30/18 02:20 PM
10/30/18 02:20 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By ZIPPY
Had a great run with that one, good luck to the new owner.


Yeah, 8 years of R&D. I tested a lot of ideas out on that engine. Very nice solid engine. The rear of the block is bone dry, never had any sort of oil leak during on those years of testing. Last compression test I ran showed 240 psi in each cylinder so the block really held up well. Too bad they stopped making them.

Re: 514 on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2571681
10/30/18 05:02 PM
10/30/18 05:02 PM
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Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Thats a killer engine, I know the new owner must be thrilled. Looking forward to seeing whats next for you..


2 kids and a dog
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