Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536225
08/14/18 03:51 PM
08/14/18 03:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
3
301v Offline OP
member
301v  Offline OP
member
3

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
Headers are fab shop 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 with a 4 inch collector

No clue what the heads flow. Just bought them from indy and had them milled to 62cc and cnc'd . I know they need more work but i always like running them the first then over the winter work on them and see what difference is made.

Last edited by 301v; 08/14/18 03:55 PM.
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536228
08/14/18 03:53 PM
08/14/18 03:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
3
301v Offline OP
member
301v  Offline OP
member
3

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
Al you were running B-1 heads correct?

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536233
08/14/18 04:02 PM
08/14/18 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,355
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,355
Las Vegas
We have run B1, Indy -1 345CNC and OOTB -1 heads on the car. The cam in the 345 head and b1 heads were similar. The 345 head went 4.80's here in Vegas in GOOD air for here.

FWIW we run a MUCH smaller header as well. I know you know this but in a dragster with a glide the converter is gonna make or break the deal. We try to get to 6-700rpm drop on the shift. We have been 1.02 60' here in Vegas as well on a little bubba.

The entire car is apart now and we are redoing it from end to end. Also building a new engine, hoping we can go .50's here, not sure we will get there but that's the goal.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536301
08/14/18 06:01 PM
08/14/18 06:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
Well I'm sure you could pick up some power with a different cam but if you are using shaft rockers there is a limit to how big you can go before you'll have problems. Do you know what valve springs are in the heads and what the installed height is? If the heads came from Indy fully assembled then the parts might not be in the best shape. Indy sends stuff out the door assembled for shipping rather than assembled for racing.

Do you know what your valve to piston is with the existing cam? If you know that number and the installed height on the springs then you could get really close with the next cam choice.

Personally I don't think you need to change the cam much. Maybe put the 1.60 rockers on there and double check valve to piston and spring clearance. If the 1.60 rocker fit and work then try it at the track and see what it does. Since you already have the parts that will give you another clue.

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536329
08/14/18 06:38 PM
08/14/18 06:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
3
301v Offline OP
member
301v  Offline OP
member
3

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
K motion k950 springs installed at 1.950 i do believe.
The rule of thumb is .060 between coils correct to prevent coil bind.

I do have a ton of valve to piston clearance since the pockets in the pistons are a little deep.

Last edited by 301v; 08/14/18 06:39 PM.
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536345
08/14/18 07:15 PM
08/14/18 07:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,989
Oregon
K-950 springs bind at 1.150 so you can't run much more lift than what you have right now. You could probably run the 1.60 rockers but it is going to be close, especially on the exhaust. Maybe put a pair of the 1.60 rockers on and check them. With lash and rocker deflection you'll probably be okay but I don't think you can put a bigger lobe in there without changing springs.

I don't know what those lobes are that you have so I don't know if the K-950 will control the valve train at 7000 rpm with the 1.60 rockers. If you aren't having any problems now then maybe they can handle the extra beating that the 1.60 rockers will dish out but you'll want to keep an eye on it.

If it was me I'd put the 1.60 rockers on there and check it over carefully. If it looks like everything clears then I'd run it down the track a few times and see what data logger says. If it makes more power then that tells you the direction to go, if it doesn't then that tells you something too.

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536347
08/14/18 07:20 PM
08/14/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
To step up to some faster lobes(I wouldn’t bother changing the cam otherwise), you’ll want to do something different with the spring pack.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536441
08/14/18 09:58 PM
08/14/18 09:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
master
FastmOp  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
My Valiant picked up pretty good going to 1.6 intakes and still using 1.5 on exhaust

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536497
08/14/18 11:44 PM
08/14/18 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
master
sgcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
I like the idea of using the 1.6 rockers, at least on the intakes. I think those carbs are way too small. This is what I'm using on my new 605 build.

Tunnel Ram 1.jpgTunnel Ram 4.jpgTunnel Ram 5.jpg
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: sgcuda] #2536511
08/15/18 12:00 AM
08/15/18 12:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
WAY too big there buddy............ beer drive


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536514
08/15/18 12:03 AM
08/15/18 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
master
sgcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
They may be too big for your little girlie street lowdeck. Perfect for a grown up engine.


[image][/image]
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536535
08/15/18 12:35 AM
08/15/18 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
HardcoreB  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By 301v
Who has a good cam recommendation for a 572 with indy 345 cnc 2.25 intake 181 exhaust heads. Indy tunnel ram with to alky 750 carbs. 14.1 compression with diamond flat tops. 4.500 bore 4.500 stroke. I have a set of 1.5 t&d or 1.6 T&D rockers i can use.

Race only setup in a dragster weighing 1955lbs with a 4.30 gear and 33.5 x16x16 tire.

Thanks in advance

Put shear plates under the carbs. Put a 1/2" spacer on the whole plenum, if it's the newer-style T/R you could make the spacer .75" thick. Use your 1.6 rockers on the intake side of current cam.

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536545
08/15/18 12:58 AM
08/15/18 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
HardcoreB  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
Originally Posted By 301v
With 1.5 rockers it is

Intake lift 700 ... Lobe 4668
Exhaust lift 715 ... Lobe 4765

@50 Intake 286 and 109 ATDC
@50 Exhaust 306 and 115 BTDC

Advertised Duration 326 intake and 356 exhaust

I'm assuming it is a single shaft system? I just went thru some old notes on a TD system with a 1.6 ratio (1.52 pivot). Measuring a .4765" lobe with .020 lash on a 760lb spring open load my NET lift was .735" FWIW
I'd guess your current NET is near .670" with the 1.5 rocker.

Last edited by HardcoreB; 08/15/18 01:02 AM.
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: HardcoreB] #2536553
08/15/18 01:22 AM
08/15/18 01:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Good info..... beer


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536600
08/15/18 08:52 AM
08/15/18 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
master
sgcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
The 345cc Indy -1's can utilize much more than .700" lift. The exhaust side seems good. I like the duration where it is.


[image][/image]
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536609
08/15/18 09:17 AM
08/15/18 09:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Ask around about those K motion springs. I had k1000h springs and broke a number of them in succsession . i am not sure about the 950s, but guess you might need more spring. I picked up a bunch just going to a comp 947, which had another 90 lb of seat pressure.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536629
08/15/18 10:28 AM
08/15/18 10:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
3
301v Offline OP
member
301v  Offline OP
member
3

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41
Kentucky
Just dug out the cam card and the spring requirements say closed 210lbs at 1.938 and open 650lbs at 1.278.

I checked last night at my k-motion springs are installed at 2.00 inches which is 245 on the seat and they are near 700 at 1.300.

Yes it is a single shaft system and with the 1.5s the cam lift checked 672 intake and 688 exhaust checking it cold of course with the lash.

I am going to stick the 1.6s on the intake side to try that out first.

Not gonna get to try it this weekend as my son and daughter in law are having a reveal party for our first grandbaby! And i darn sure ain't missing that over a dang ole race car!

Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2536962
08/15/18 11:58 PM
08/15/18 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
In my case the k1000h were 225 on the seat, and the cam card called for that much, yet the car responded with almost a tenth gain in ET in the 1/8th! There is a whole lot more to picking the right spring than installed seat pressure, open presure, and coilbind. Spring frequency is VERY important, along with total mass. I am no expert for sure, but just want this information available to you so you can research it, and get the most out of your motor. Dwayne Porter is one of the guys to talk to. He has dynoed a lot of motors, and has a lot of experiance in this area


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2537078
08/16/18 10:58 AM
08/16/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
As I’m sure Greg can attest......... you can spend a lot of $$$ when you’re where you are to find a tenth or two.

My biggest gripe with the k-950’s is they don’t seem to hold up very well when the valve action starts getting quicker.
There are also plenty of people who have had surge problems and breakage issues using those springs, so I generally just use something else.

As for the cam, I don’t really like all that seat timing for the .050 duration and lobe lift.
I don’t think it would be too hard to improve on that cam......but just how much it would improve is the question mark.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 572 cam recommendation [Re: 301v] #2537221
08/16/18 03:37 PM
08/16/18 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
HardcoreB  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,035
Shelby Twp. Mi
All said, I ran your performance #'s and considering such a small cam and assuming you don't have trick ring packs and vacuum pumps and great valve jobs...YOUR MOTOR IS MAKING DECENT POWER now for the compromises. I'd guess you'll need about 50hp? or so for your stated goal? ...I don't see just a rocker change giving you that much but if you did both (well 3) things I suggested it should get you there assuming you don't have a plenum spacer and shear plates. Also as stated your maintenance interval will go up...lifter rebuilds? spring change intervals? with cam intensity. Maybe look at a PAC 1225 spring on the intakes.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1