Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536150
08/14/18 01:47 PM
08/14/18 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Have you contacted Patrick at Pro Systems about it? If not, that's where I'd start.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536195
08/14/18 03:03 PM
08/14/18 03:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287
PA
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I would (and did) start reading here....pay particular attention to jmark and tuner. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/racingfuelsystems/index.phppro systems is good at promotion and not much else.
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536344
08/14/18 07:13 PM
08/14/18 07:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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I’d def put a primary PV in it and take out some jet.
I’d try increasing the iab as well....... and see if there are any transfer slot restrictors in the main body.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536475
08/14/18 10:44 PM
08/14/18 10:44 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260 New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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Only thing my Pro Systems 950HP (I know not a dominator, but still carb) was good at was WOT, pig rich at idle, it sucked, nothing would work.
Thumper fixed it and then some.
2001 Dodge Dakota 408 All Motor 11.27 @ 117.83 mph 2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536486
08/14/18 11:24 PM
08/14/18 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017
Benton, IL.
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Thumper really is your best bet.
Master, again and still
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536552
08/15/18 01:21 AM
08/15/18 01:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 63 Lanse,mi
Canam800
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 63
Lanse,mi
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Well I gues it needs to be converted to a 2 cuircut. I sent it out to them so that I could use it on the street which is where it will be used 99% of the time. that didn't work. Do you know what kind of jets are used for the intermediate circuit? I could put the 20 jets in. Would it be ok to drive like 30 miles with the 20's? I wanted to take the car to a show this weekend and wouldn't have the carb back in time if I sent it out tomorrow. Also as far as the timing is it not good for the street to have it locked? I thought it would be better with my cam. I have 1.6 rockers Here is my cam card. Thanks Brandon
Last edited by Canam800; 08/15/18 01:22 AM.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536638
08/15/18 10:52 AM
08/15/18 10:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I'm just gonna say that Pro Systems did the 1200 cfm 3 circuit Dominator that's on my street/strip hemi and it's been great since 2006. No need to convert to 2 circuit if the 3 circuit is done correctly. If I need another one done, Pro Systems will get my business.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536685
08/15/18 12:12 PM
08/15/18 12:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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You might want to put a power valve in the front and jet down to 84 or so
What took everyone so long?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: polyspheric]
#2536733
08/15/18 01:36 PM
08/15/18 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
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State of confusion
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You might want to put a power valve in the front and jet down to 84 or so
What took everyone so long? Because it's a crutch for a blubbery mess 3 circuit and if Chip is happy with his that's good but you are one of damn near none........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536745
08/15/18 01:52 PM
08/15/18 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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The spec sheet posted shows it has a pvcr, so the PV should function....... just make sure it has a vacuum port in the cavity.
I doubt the motor would run “well” at part throttle if you leaned it out far enough to hurt anything. Generally, big cam, big heads, big intake........ tuned so that it feels like it’s running pretty well at part throttle.........it’s usually still on the rich side.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536826
08/15/18 05:26 PM
08/15/18 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Mine has a PV on the primary side BTW. It is far from a blubbery mess.
Guess I'm the odd man out in this conversation...different observations about a couple different carbs I've had here.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2536839
08/15/18 06:10 PM
08/15/18 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492
So. Burlington, Vt.
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One thing at a time.
Just install the PV with like 85 jets and drive it...... see how it goes. Tweak from there.
The pre-HP 3 circuit 4500’s didn’t have an air bleed in the int circuit.... just a hole where one could go.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2536851
08/15/18 06:40 PM
08/15/18 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Mine has a PV on the primary side BTW. It is far from a blubbery mess.
Guess I'm the odd man out in this conversation...different observations about a couple different carbs I've had here. Glad that works for you and apparently you got a good tune going............ Do you have a wide band to verify afr's at different engine speeds.......... Just asking to get info and understand how you verify that your 3-circuit is great on the street and has no blubbery or over rich issues cos if so, that's a good thing for sure just haven't seen it first hand..........
Last edited by Thumperdart; 08/16/18 02:48 AM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2537087
08/16/18 11:17 AM
08/16/18 11:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620 Deep DEEP SOUTH
LAD 524
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 620
Deep DEEP SOUTH
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Looks like you're not alone Chip The Dominator on my 572 Hemi is a Pro Systems 3 circuit as well. On the dyno with open headers, the AFRs from 4K and WOT up were perfect and the engine performed really well. I toyed with the idea of maybe going to a 2 circuit conversion but decided to have a go at dialling it in nicely in the car. I have dual Widebands - one in each collector, this helped a lot as a tuning guide. Once in the car the IABs and Int circuit needed a little tweaking along with equal reductions in jetting on both the Pri and Sec side - with a full exhaust now on the car, it really made a difference to the fuelling. The IFRs, HSABs and PVCR jet I left untouched so far. It has a 5.5 PV in front as well, I now have it idling hot at around low 15s and cruises hi 14s/low 15s as well. There is little to no real load at idle or part throttle and despite what others have told me, I'm letting the car tell me what it likes using AFRs as a guide. The car loves the current setup, no surging, great transition and super nice plugs and clean oil. Hell, if I keep the right foot out of it it ain't half bad on the benzene consumption lol. I'm now creeping up on the WOT and its nearly there but still a tad on the rich side need to get to the track to dial it in further. I'm guessing the PVCR jet will need to be a little smaller so I'll see what happens. In my case I had to be super patient and persistent, make one change at a time, document each change, drive it and see what the car/engine was telling me. A bit of work - for sure, Worth it ? ABSOLUTELY ! I've found most guys don't have the patience (or time) to take the time to understand each circuit and its effects and then to dial it in properly with the right tools/parts. Each engine is different ...gotta give it what it likes and use AFRs as a guide.
Last edited by LAD 524; 08/16/18 11:35 AM.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2537105
08/16/18 12:06 PM
08/16/18 12:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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It's a debate. Who agrees with me on almost every product? Holley. Who does not? People in a "State of confusion".
Biggest reason to remove PV: you have no idea what it does.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: LAD 524]
#2537165
08/16/18 01:55 PM
08/16/18 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Looks like you're not alone Chip The Dominator on my 572 Hemi is a Pro Systems 3 circuit as well. On the dyno with open headers, the AFRs from 4K and WOT up were perfect and the engine performed really well. I toyed with the idea of maybe going to a 2 circuit conversion but decided to have a go at dialling it in nicely in the car. I have dual Widebands - one in each collector, this helped a lot as a tuning guide. Once in the car the IABs and Int circuit needed a little tweaking along with equal reductions in jetting on both the Pri and Sec side - with a full exhaust now on the car, it really made a difference to the fuelling. The IFRs, HSABs and PVCR jet I left untouched so far. It has a 5.5 PV in front as well, I now have it idling hot at around low 15s and cruises hi 14s/low 15s as well. There is little to no real load at idle or part throttle and despite what others have told me, I'm letting the car tell me what it likes using AFRs as a guide. The car loves the current setup, no surging, great transition and super nice plugs and clean oil. Hell, if I keep the right foot out of it it ain't half bad on the benzene consumption lol. I'm now creeping up on the WOT and its nearly there but still a tad on the rich side need to get to the track to dial it in further. I'm guessing the PVCR jet will need to be a little smaller so I'll see what happens. In my case I had to be super patient and persistent, make one change at a time, document each change, drive it and see what the car/engine was telling me. A bit of work - for sure, Worth it ? ABSOLUTELY ! I've found most guys don't have the patience (or time) to take the time to understand each circuit and its effects and then to dial it in properly with the right tools/parts. Each engine is different ...gotta give it what it likes and use AFRs as a guide. You're right about the patience part for sure and again, if YOU are happy that's all that matters but every single 2 circuit conversion is still that, a 2 and no one as far as I know has ever changed back to a 3. Forest on here went 8-flat at almost 171 mph with a 2 I converted for him and it's cleaner n meaner than ever and that's just ONE example......I also know the HEMI's have a different fuel demand than a wedge and like more fuel from my testing...........
Last edited by Thumperdart; 08/16/18 01:56 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2538063
08/18/18 11:49 AM
08/18/18 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017
Benton, IL.
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I was hanging out at the local speed shop yesterday while they were dynoing a fresh 540 shebby boat engine. The owner had them install Holley Dominator size multi port injection and they were trying to tune it.
Well, first they were just trying to get it to run well enough, long enough to start tuning. They were on their second day trying to get it lined out. They swapped a carb on to break it in and get some initial details.
They had tried about everything they knew to try, had called Holley several times and had switched back to the carb to make sure that the EFI was the problem.
I'ld hate to pay that bill. And did I mention that the boat had twin engines? So, they have this to do again. Anyone care to guess what the customer will have in his EFI when it's all said and done? $6,000? $8,000? Could it go $10,000?
Master, again and still
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2538068
08/18/18 12:05 PM
08/18/18 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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I was hanging out at the local speed shop yesterday while they were dynoing a fresh 540 shebby boat engine. The owner had them install Holley Dominator size multi port injection and they were trying to tune it.
Well, first they were just trying to get it to run well enough, long enough to start tuning. They were on their second day trying to get it lined out. They swapped a carb on to break it in and get some initial details.
They had tried about everything they knew to try, had called Holley several times and had switched back to the carb to make sure that the EFI was the problem.
I'ld hate to pay that bill. And did I mention that the boat had twin engines? So, they have this to do again. Anyone care to guess what the customer will have in his EFI when it's all said and done? $6,000? $8,000? Could it go $10,000? Yep, I get those calls a lot and they see the light after all including the several I converted from corn to gas.........Kevin at CSU has a saying and in MOST cases I agree but I can't post it here but he's not a fan either..........EFI has it's place just never on my plate nor would I ever suggest it EVER.............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2538092
08/18/18 12:44 PM
08/18/18 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938 Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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I was hanging out at the local speed shop yesterday while they were dynoing a fresh 540 shebby boat engine. The owner had them install Holley Dominator size multi port injection and they were trying to tune it.
Well, first they were just trying to get it to run well enough, long enough to start tuning. They were on their second day trying to get it lined out. They swapped a carb on to break it in and get some initial details.
They had tried about everything they knew to try, had called Holley several times and had switched back to the carb to make sure that the EFI was the problem.
They should have called me. I could have remote connected and tuned The Holley EFI over the Internet. I'm doing two remote sessions like this every day. Unless there's a mechanical issue this works every time. efiexpert.com
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#2538247
08/18/18 09:26 PM
08/18/18 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017
Benton, IL.
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Why doesn't Holley tech recommend you in certain cases, Rich? Why does the customer have to figure out who to call when he's struggling with their product?
I will say that when they called the engine's owner, he suggested that they call Holley tech a couple of times to see if they could get a more competent tech. Apparently, this isn't his first experience with them.
Master, again and still
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2538943
08/20/18 11:49 AM
08/20/18 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Mine has a PV on the primary side BTW. It is far from a blubbery mess.
Guess I'm the odd man out in this conversation...different observations about a couple different carbs I've had here. Glad that works for you and apparently you got a good tune going............ Do you have a wide band to verify afr's at different engine speeds.......... Just asking to get info and understand how you verify that your 3-circuit is great on the street and has no blubbery or over rich issues cos if so, that's a good thing for sure just haven't seen it first hand.......... No wideband needed. After 12 years of street and strip use and never fouling plugs and running great, I'm perfectly happy w/ it. Sounds crisp, clean off the footbrake or the transbrake. Part throttle driving around town, no stumbles, or running rough. Which is a lot more than I can say for some other carbs I've had to mess with.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2546520
09/06/18 01:42 AM
09/06/18 01:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Got the carb back from Dominic and back on the car. What a difference. The car runs great. Way cleaner and smoother. Going to take it out and drive it more only got to put a few miles on it. When it stops raining here I will log some more miles and report back . Very happy so far. Night and day difference very responsive. Thanks Dominic.
Thanks Brandon Was wondering how it worked out as I haven't heard from you guys and I start twitching in anticipation............Very happy that you're happy.........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2546695
09/06/18 02:18 PM
09/06/18 02:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,119 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,119
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/07/18 07:24 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2546842
09/06/18 07:16 PM
09/06/18 07:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287
PA
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Got the carb back from Dominic and back on the car. What a difference. The car runs great. Way cleaner and smoother. Going to take it out and drive it more only got to put a few miles on it. When it stops raining here I will log some more miles and report back . Very happy so far. Night and day difference very responsive. Thanks Dominic.
Thanks Brandon Was wondering how it worked out as I haven't heard from you guys and I start twitching in anticipation............Very happy that you're happy......... Thumper, could you give us the "recipe" you used for this application?
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Harry's Taxi 2]
#2546855
09/06/18 07:36 PM
09/06/18 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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They vary but if you send yours you can see for yourself my "recipe"........ I look at the whole picture of the said vehicle and it's intended application and go from there but lets just say I tune like the baddest did in the 60's and 70's not like the monkey crap you see today........Less emulsion(2)normally and adjustable t-slot jets to keep em clean n mean till you wood the happy peddle..........
Last edited by Thumperdart; 09/08/18 01:34 AM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2547324
09/07/18 07:18 PM
09/07/18 07:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287
PA
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dogdays, I understand that, but per thumpers own acknowledgment he was given quite a bit of free guidance in the past. I gotta eat too!
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Harry's Taxi 2]
#2547340
09/07/18 07:50 PM
09/07/18 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Nothing is free I'm here to tell ya..........Hundreds and hundreds of dollars on gas, plugs, oil, tires etc to learn this stuff and am still learning new and unexpected stuff. My numbers below if you want to call me anytime.......... And let's just say that the "free" info isn't always accurate..............
Last edited by Thumperdart; 09/07/18 07:51 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Need help tuning dominator for the street
[Re: Canam800]
#2775707
05/18/20 12:59 PM
05/18/20 12:59 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1 Ashburs, Virginia, USA
LayDeluca
member
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member
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 1
Ashburs, Virginia, USA
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Hello... i can say you need to try is setting the Closed Loop Compensation Limits down. In my case I pulled the distributor to find that the gear is pretty worn on the bottom leading edges of the teeth. It looks like I need to figure out a way to get my distributor depth just a little deeper. This would explain my jumpy timing. pcb manufacturing
Last edited by LayDeluca; 06/12/20 02:55 PM.
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