Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2535603
08/13/18 01:37 PM
08/13/18 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,356 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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Call Fast68Plymouth, Dwayne Porter. 802-951-1955
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2535664
08/13/18 03:20 PM
08/13/18 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,477 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
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I don't have a recommendation, but that monster is going to need one big honkin' cam! sounds like an awesome, big power combination. GOod luck with it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2535708
08/13/18 04:38 PM
08/13/18 04:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/13/18 04:39 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536026
08/14/18 07:22 AM
08/14/18 07:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824 MI, usa
dvw
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This what I run. 15-1 572, ported -1. Comp; RX 1718 int lobe (285@.471"). XCX 1862 exh lobe (292@.471") ground on 112 LCA (gross lift .799"). Uses PAC 1224 spring @1.950. T&D paired rockers 1.7 ratio. We checked the last set of springs at 200 passes. No pressure loss, same as the new set. With 440-25 Indy cross ram and 2 Eddy 750's the car will run 9.1-9.2 145-146 in any weather at 3340lbs. Best of 9.00@150. Lash stays consistent. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 08/16/18 09:48 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: AndyF]
#2536045
08/14/18 09:46 AM
08/14/18 09:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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Do you know what engine RPM you want to shift at and what the RPM is at the stripe? Right now i shift at 7000 and cross about 6800. Somewhere close to that is kinda where i want to stay. Thats with the convertor flashing at 6120 via the racepack. The valve pockets are plenty deep. The block is the older mopar mega block. I make 350 passes or so a year so i do like something easy on the valve train. I am still running the same the cam i had ground for my 528 years ago and then i switched to the 572 combos in 2011. Just thought i would put the correct cam in it to make it a little more stout. Want to be in the 4.70s in any weather instead of the 80s like it is now.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: AndyF]
#2536129
08/14/18 01:00 PM
08/14/18 01:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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With 1.5 rockers it is
Intake lift 700 ... Lobe 4668 Exhaust lift 715 ... Lobe 4765
@50 Intake 286 and 109 ATDC @50 Exhaust 306 and 115 BTDC
Advertised Duration 326 intake and 356 exhaust
Last edited by 301v; 08/14/18 01:01 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536132
08/14/18 01:04 PM
08/14/18 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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With a STD cam core keep the lift reasonable. You didn't mention a rocker ratio but assume 1.5/1.6. We run a 572 in our Racetech, its been 4.60 here in Las Vegas. Id look similar to what's been posted FWIW here is what we had in ours 115 center, 283/299, .474/.475 with a 1.7 rocker gross lift at 806/808.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536156
08/14/18 01:58 PM
08/14/18 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Those lobes were probably designed for someone, or a particular combination........ they’re not in the lobe catalog.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536214
08/14/18 03:30 PM
08/14/18 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,994 Oregon
AndyF
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Do you have flow numbers for the heads? I would think that those heads would flow pretty well up past 0.800 so if you have the budget to put more lift in the engine you might find some power there.
Seems to me your existing duration is roughly correct but you could probably pick up some power with more lift. However, adding more lift and keeping the same duration means that you are going to be using a more aggressive lobe which means everything gets beat on harder.
In my 514 race engine I use a Crane R282/481. That cam is 282/288 at 050 and has 0.481 lobes. With 1.70 rocker the gross lift is 0.817. That cam might be a touch small for what you are doing but I'm thinking it would make more power than what you have now without changing the peak rpm much. My 514 makes about 900 hp on the dyno with Indy EZ heads and a single Dominator. My compression is 15:1 so close to what you run but I'm 60 inches smaller and don't have the tunnel ram.
I assume you're running some sort of race header since it is a dragster? 2 1/4 pipes? 30 inches long? 4 inch collector?
Last edited by AndyF; 08/14/18 03:31 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536219
08/14/18 03:37 PM
08/14/18 03:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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We have never run our Racetech out the back door as my son is only allowed to go 7.50. We run it with 10 degrees of timing out of it and a small 1050 carb most all the time. The only time we ran it all out was in Salt Lake las year and he went 7.53 in 9200' DA. You don't NEED a ton of camshaft in a light dragster to get after it. We went 8.teens with a 446 in the same car here in Vegas with an OOTB -1 head and tiny roller on pump swill.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536225
08/14/18 03:51 PM
08/14/18 03:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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Headers are fab shop 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 with a 4 inch collector
No clue what the heads flow. Just bought them from indy and had them milled to 62cc and cnc'd . I know they need more work but i always like running them the first then over the winter work on them and see what difference is made.
Last edited by 301v; 08/14/18 03:55 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536233
08/14/18 04:02 PM
08/14/18 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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We have run B1, Indy -1 345CNC and OOTB -1 heads on the car. The cam in the 345 head and b1 heads were similar. The 345 head went 4.80's here in Vegas in GOOD air for here.
FWIW we run a MUCH smaller header as well. I know you know this but in a dragster with a glide the converter is gonna make or break the deal. We try to get to 6-700rpm drop on the shift. We have been 1.02 60' here in Vegas as well on a little bubba.
The entire car is apart now and we are redoing it from end to end. Also building a new engine, hoping we can go .50's here, not sure we will get there but that's the goal.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536329
08/14/18 06:38 PM
08/14/18 06:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
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301v
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K motion k950 springs installed at 1.950 i do believe. The rule of thumb is .060 between coils correct to prevent coil bind.
I do have a ton of valve to piston clearance since the pockets in the pistons are a little deep.
Last edited by 301v; 08/14/18 06:39 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536347
08/14/18 07:20 PM
08/14/18 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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To step up to some faster lobes(I wouldn’t bother changing the cam otherwise), you’ll want to do something different with the spring pack.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536535
08/15/18 12:35 AM
08/15/18 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,041 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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Who has a good cam recommendation for a 572 with indy 345 cnc 2.25 intake 181 exhaust heads. Indy tunnel ram with to alky 750 carbs. 14.1 compression with diamond flat tops. 4.500 bore 4.500 stroke. I have a set of 1.5 t&d or 1.6 T&D rockers i can use.
Race only setup in a dragster weighing 1955lbs with a 4.30 gear and 33.5 x16x16 tire.
Thanks in advance Put shear plates under the carbs. Put a 1/2" spacer on the whole plenum, if it's the newer-style T/R you could make the spacer .75" thick. Use your 1.6 rockers on the intake side of current cam.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536545
08/15/18 12:58 AM
08/15/18 12:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,041 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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With 1.5 rockers it is
Intake lift 700 ... Lobe 4668 Exhaust lift 715 ... Lobe 4765
@50 Intake 286 and 109 ATDC @50 Exhaust 306 and 115 BTDC
Advertised Duration 326 intake and 356 exhaust I'm assuming it is a single shaft system? I just went thru some old notes on a TD system with a 1.6 ratio (1.52 pivot). Measuring a .4765" lobe with .020 lash on a 760lb spring open load my NET lift was .735" FWIW I'd guess your current NET is near .670" with the 1.5 rocker.
Last edited by HardcoreB; 08/15/18 01:02 AM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536609
08/15/18 09:17 AM
08/15/18 09:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Ask around about those K motion springs. I had k1000h springs and broke a number of them in succsession . i am not sure about the 950s, but guess you might need more spring. I picked up a bunch just going to a comp 947, which had another 90 lb of seat pressure.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2536962
08/15/18 11:58 PM
08/15/18 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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gregsdart
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In my case the k1000h were 225 on the seat, and the cam card called for that much, yet the car responded with almost a tenth gain in ET in the 1/8th! There is a whole lot more to picking the right spring than installed seat pressure, open presure, and coilbind. Spring frequency is VERY important, along with total mass. I am no expert for sure, but just want this information available to you so you can research it, and get the most out of your motor. Dwayne Porter is one of the guys to talk to. He has dynoed a lot of motors, and has a lot of experiance in this area
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2537078
08/16/18 10:58 AM
08/16/18 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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As I’m sure Greg can attest......... you can spend a lot of $$$ when you’re where you are to find a tenth or two.
My biggest gripe with the k-950’s is they don’t seem to hold up very well when the valve action starts getting quicker. There are also plenty of people who have had surge problems and breakage issues using those springs, so I generally just use something else.
As for the cam, I don’t really like all that seat timing for the .050 duration and lobe lift. I don’t think it would be too hard to improve on that cam......but just how much it would improve is the question mark.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2537375
08/16/18 09:00 PM
08/16/18 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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If the OP is really making 350 passes a year, and is having good reliability at the same time....... I’m not sure I’d mess with it looking for a tenth.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2537442
08/17/18 12:17 AM
08/17/18 12:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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gregsdart
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[quote=fast68plymouth]As I’m sure Greg can attest......... you can spend a lot of $$$ when you’re where you are to find a tenth
You bet! I could have bought a tunnelram, twin Dominators and a few barrels of q16 for what i spent trying to get the tenth i got! I ended up with an inverted flank cam from Mike Jones with .870 lift, 284 / 296/114 in my 528.
Last edited by gregsdart; 08/17/18 12:38 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2538265
08/18/18 10:17 PM
08/18/18 10:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 30 CA
wyrmrider
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If you have not investigate inverse flank roller time to do so http://jonescams.com/drag-race/shorter duration for given profile or more area at the same duration less side thrust so profile can be easier on the parts or more radical your choice Mike Jones is the only one I know of that can make these profiles rpm uses small wheel for finish grinds or Get Rick jones to run his controlled induction software and generate cam profile which can be ground cnc by several different grinders google "Controlled Induction" look around the website and watch the demo https://www.controlledinduction.com/home.html
Last edited by wyrmrider; 08/18/18 10:31 PM.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2574317
11/05/18 12:01 PM
11/05/18 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Have you tried tightening the lash? What Pushrod size? Do you have titanium valves? I am not sure of the value of Ti valves at your rpm, but would think it would take a lot of stress out of the combo as you get more radical on valve action and lift.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2574332
11/05/18 12:32 PM
11/05/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159 PA.
pittsburghracer
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Just a little update.. Hadn't got to do much experimenting on the car in the last month or so due to it has been very good and some weekends the driver has even showed up.
But took it to a small $1000 to win bracket race yesterday and changed my 1.5 intake rockers and put on the 1.6 intakes and left the 1.5 exhaust rockers on.
Car picked up .01 in 60 ft, .04 to the 330, and .06 in the 1/8th.
Mph only showed 1 to 1 1/2 mph gain.
So that gives me a little more info on what the cam want's at least on the intake side. Did you monitor weather conditions on both days. Lots of new bests this time of year. The East coast guys live for Fall testing and new bests and climb out like hibernating bears.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: gregsdart]
#2574339
11/05/18 12:41 PM
11/05/18 12:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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Have you tried tightening the lash? What Pushrod size? Do you have titanium valves? I am not sure of the value of Ti valves at your rpm, but would think it would take a lot of stress out of the combo as you get more radical on valve action and lift. Haven't messed with lash on these 1.6 rockers. Only ran it yesterday with this combo of rockers. Did run lash the same as the 1.5s.. But didn't want to get to tight cause it is close to the coil bind numbers. I have 3/8ths 120 wall manton pushrods and stainless valves.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2574343
11/05/18 12:47 PM
11/05/18 12:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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Just a little update.. Hadn't got to do much experimenting on the car in the last month or so due to it has been very good and some weekends the driver has even showed up.
But took it to a small $1000 to win bracket race yesterday and changed my 1.5 intake rockers and put on the 1.6 intakes and left the 1.5 exhaust rockers on.
Car picked up .01 in 60 ft, .04 to the 330, and .06 in the 1/8th.
Mph only showed 1 to 1 1/2 mph gain.
So that gives me a little more info on what the cam want's at least on the intake side. Did you monitor weather conditions on both days. Lots of new bests this time of year. The East coast guys live for Fall testing and new bests and climb out like hibernating bears. Yea weather was decent but not that great.. 2300 ft and 70 percent humidity .. Same weather in my crew chief pro which is pretty accurate said it was gonna go 4.896 first hit and went 4.837.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: JACK1440]
#2574345
11/05/18 12:48 PM
11/05/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 41 Kentucky
301v
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I am building almost the same exact motor and should be going to the dyno within the next month. I have a cam that we are going to base line with and then custom grind a cam maybe the end of next season. This is my combo
572" Mitchell Alum block Indy -1's 2.250 / 1.81 valves flowed 400/300 @ .800 & 409/305 @ .900 15.1 comp flat tops single 4 on indy 3x intake cam is .800 / .760 w/ 1.6 rockers (T&D) and 292/300 @ .050 on a 112 centerline
once I get closer to the dyno I'll post flow sheets and cam card and eventually a dyno sheet. I've had quite the long adventure with the block. That would be some good information to have if you don't mind sharing when you dyno it.
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2574350
11/05/18 12:58 PM
11/05/18 12:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 500 MD
JACK1440
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Re: 572 cam recommendation
[Re: 301v]
#2575000
11/06/18 07:32 PM
11/06/18 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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There’s really only one way to know how your car would respond to that cam.
I will say...... it doesn’t look like a “350 run” no parts replacement type cam.
But even that there’s only one way you’d really know.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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