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ANTI LOCK BRAKES #2529579
07/31/18 03:48 PM
07/31/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
A
A/MP Offline OP
super stock
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Someone figured out how to use the simplified anti lock brakes system from the late 80-90 trucks. A pick up was installed on the ring gear and whatever sensors and mods to the MC. It was in some magazine. Looking to do the same with an early '70 A body. Anyone have the formula and are the parts still available? Thanks

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2529585
07/31/18 03:56 PM
07/31/18 03:56 PM
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Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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bump
I know this is not your question, but I would wonder if 80-90's PU abs technology adapted to an a body with whatever the intended purpose is, worth the hassle,etc, vs say just bigger front brakes/stickier tires?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2529614
07/31/18 04:58 PM
07/31/18 04:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Mopar Action magazine had this article.
OP is on the east coast where snow and ice are common. I can see the benefit there as opposed to drier and warmer climates.

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: Kern Dog] #2529722
07/31/18 09:06 PM
07/31/18 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,394
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic Offline
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Parts are getting very hard to find for those old systems. They never worked very well either, more of a glorified adjustable proportioning valve than a true ABS system. True 4 channel ABS is one mod that I'd love to have for my classic car, but doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2529739
07/31/18 09:37 PM
07/31/18 09:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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up yours


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: Supercuda] #2529886
08/01/18 10:58 AM
08/01/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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I agree, however in some of these 6 figure $ plus, hey look at me 600+hp retromod cars, street driven by over the hill drivers I am not convinced can handle driving a 4 wheeled office chair, I would think the benefit of an aftermarket Bosch ABS would be a no brainer. twocents


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2530177
08/01/18 08:26 PM
08/01/18 08:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200
Colorado
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Bob J Offline
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Colorado
ABS for autocross can be a bonus or a curse. If it's hooked up the the rest of the car like my Porsche it's a curse as it pulls back the throttle and takes it out of sport mode. So you learn fast how to stay out of it. If it is a stand alone system it can help on the street. I don't think that it would be much help on a autocross course as you modulate the Brakes and toss the ass around, that is not good for ABS.


07 Porsche C2 997.1 6spd DD and SCCA Solo II SS
68 Plymouth GTX Convert. 493cu Hotkiss Wilwood Classic air, Building for Solo II Cam
65 Chrysler 300 Convert. project
57 Desoto 2dr. Firesweep 392 Hemi,Wilwood Project with son
2003 Dodge Dakota R/T "DEAD"
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2530212
08/01/18 09:56 PM
08/01/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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Texas
I wouldn't mind trying to implement something if I had the right pump. I have a undriven and driven wheel speed sensor and can pretty accurately detect a rear lockup condition.

My current bias is setup for the front to lock just before the rear, however.


1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2530567
08/02/18 05:37 PM
08/02/18 05:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
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A/MP Offline OP
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I was wondering what the nascar guys did in the 80's and 90's say at Sonoma or better yet Watkins Glen. Taking a heavy car and throwing it into the turns must have been interesting. I'd figure that the good ole boys came up with something. Not any computer technology back then.

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2530569
08/02/18 05:40 PM
08/02/18 05:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: Supercuda] #2530668
08/02/18 09:03 PM
08/02/18 09:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 200
Colorado
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Bob J Offline
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Interesting maybe worth looking at


07 Porsche C2 997.1 6spd DD and SCCA Solo II SS
68 Plymouth GTX Convert. 493cu Hotkiss Wilwood Classic air, Building for Solo II Cam
65 Chrysler 300 Convert. project
57 Desoto 2dr. Firesweep 392 Hemi,Wilwood Project with son
2003 Dodge Dakota R/T "DEAD"
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2530749
08/02/18 11:55 PM
08/02/18 11:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
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A/MP Offline OP
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Its really great when members on this site help solve a problem. Thanks

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: jcc] #2530848
08/03/18 10:08 AM
08/03/18 10:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE Offline
mopar
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Florida
Originally Posted By jcc
I agree, however in some of these 6 figure $ plus, hey look at me 600+hp retromod cars, street driven by over the hill drivers I am not convinced can handle driving a 4 wheeled office chair, I would think the benefit of an aftermarket Bosch ABS would be a no brainer. twocents


When IMSA allowed the GTD cars to use ABS, the Bosch Motorsports unit, they improved their lap times by almost 3 seconds. In fact, even though they are considerably down on power and aero to the GTLM cars, they run close lap times.

Yes I have it on my car, but my logic is simple. A set of tires cost $1500+. Flat spot 4 sets and the unit has paid for itself...with the benefit of faster lap times and better control.


Craig Scholl
CJD Automotive, LLC
Jacksonville, FL
www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com
904-400-1802

"I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: CJD AUTOMOTIVE] #2530867
08/03/18 11:04 AM
08/03/18 11:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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Craig, if anybody here is flat spotting 4 sets of $1500 tires, they definitely should stay away from wheeled office chairs. My original thinking was hard street driven all weather, high dollar cars, to reduce cost of shunts and hospital bills. However your example works. up

So tell us, how complex/involved is it properly dialing in a custom aftermarket ABS system?

Are there different selectable settings for track/street/etc use?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: CJD AUTOMOTIVE] #2531583
08/04/18 07:02 PM
08/04/18 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,394
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic Offline
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The Pale Blue Dot
Originally Posted By CJD AUTOMOTIVE
Originally Posted By jcc
I agree, however in some of these 6 figure $ plus, hey look at me 600+hp retromod cars, street driven by over the hill drivers I am not convinced can handle driving a 4 wheeled office chair, I would think the benefit of an aftermarket Bosch ABS would be a no brainer. twocents


When IMSA allowed the GTD cars to use ABS, the Bosch Motorsports unit, they improved their lap times by almost 3 seconds. In fact, even though they are considerably down on power and aero to the GTLM cars, they run close lap times.

Yes I have it on my car, but my logic is simple. A set of tires cost $1500+. Flat spot 4 sets and the unit has paid for itself...with the benefit of faster lap times and better control.
What car are you running it on?

Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2531896
08/05/18 02:41 PM
08/05/18 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318 Offline
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Lake Orion, MI
The systems itself doing ABS isn't that hard, other than the tone rings and the wheel speed sensors in the wheels.

The thing about it is you need to know a lot about your vehicle, especially if you're looking for a yaw-rate sensor, or any type of ESC. Then there's calibrating it. Probably not too hard to do for a big race team. The OE's spend at least a few months calibrating factory ABS (and years when you think about all the other features in modern cars)

Sounds like in the Bosch unit mentioned they are doing BTCS (Brake traction) and EBD (electronic brake force distribution). This can really help the balance on your car and therefore improve lap times.

You won't be able to use a modern one from a Charger or whatever because of the in-vehicle bus communication. Otherwise the hardware would be pretty adaptable.


'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: jcc] #2532179
08/06/18 10:34 AM
08/06/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE Offline
mopar
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Florida
Originally Posted By jcc
Craig, if anybody here is flat spotting 4 sets of $1500 tires, they definitely should stay away from wheeled office chairs. My original thinking was hard street driven all weather, high dollar cars, to reduce cost of shunts and hospital bills. However your example works. up

So tell us, how complex/involved is it properly dialing in a custom aftermarket ABS system?

Are there different selectable settings for track/street/etc use?


The Bosch M4 Motorsports unit is identical to its OE counterpart, they differ only by programming. The M4 has 9 preprogrammed maps adjustable from a rotary switch (full wet to grippy dry). It also has 2 programmable maps. Just 2, so the 9 that the Bosch engineers preprogrammed are pretty damn good.

When you set it up, you enter your car data, weight, tire size, CG, etc, etc. The included 3-axis G-sensor and wheel speed sensors are the input data to the unit.

This is a Motorsports piece, so you have to have the Bosch Box II adaptor to connect to a laptop! That's another 1K.

I'm running a Motec system on the 'Cuda, so I use the wheel speed data from Bosch unit to feed the Motec for Traction Control.

I run a floater rear and big bearing hubs, so I machined the rears to accept a custom tone ring and made an adaptor that doubles as a seal retainer for the front:





Craig Scholl
CJD Automotive, LLC
Jacksonville, FL
www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com
904-400-1802

"I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: Skeptic] #2532180
08/06/18 10:39 AM
08/06/18 10:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE Offline
mopar
CJD AUTOMOTIVE  Offline
mopar

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
[/quote] What car are you running it on? [/quote]

This one under construction!





Craig Scholl
CJD Automotive, LLC
Jacksonville, FL
www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com
904-400-1802

"I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: A/MP] #2532207
08/06/18 11:43 AM
08/06/18 11:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
As I said, not cheap. but that sure looks nice


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: ANTI LOCK BRAKES [Re: CJD AUTOMOTIVE] #2532501
08/06/18 09:06 PM
08/06/18 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda  Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
Originally Posted By CJD AUTOMOTIVE
Originally Posted By jcc
Craig, if anybody here is flat spotting 4 sets of $1500 tires, they definitely should stay away from wheeled office chairs. My original thinking was hard street driven all weather, high dollar cars, to reduce cost of shunts and hospital bills. However your example works. up

So tell us, how complex/involved is it properly dialing in a custom aftermarket ABS system?

Are there different selectable settings for track/street/etc use?


The Bosch M4 Motorsports unit is identical to its OE counterpart, they differ only by programming. The M4 has 9 preprogrammed maps adjustable from a rotary switch (full wet to grippy dry). It also has 2 programmable maps. Just 2, so the 9 that the Bosch engineers preprogrammed are pretty damn good.

When you set it up, you enter your car data, weight, tire size, CG, etc, etc. The included 3-axis G-sensor and wheel speed sensors are the input data to the unit.

This is a Motorsports piece, so you have to have the Bosch Box II adaptor to connect to a laptop! That's another 1K.

I'm running a Motec system on the 'Cuda, so I use the wheel speed data from Bosch unit to feed the Motec for Traction Control.

I run a floater rear and big bearing hubs, so I machined the rears to accept a custom tone ring and made an adaptor that doubles as a seal retainer for the front:


That's fancy looking. I pickup undriven speed from the rotor vanes, works well.

23031677_1705882546122463_5136686057413250596_n.jpg22815598_1705882522789132_4684779263894029108_n.jpg

1972 Barracuda - 5.7L Hemi, T56 Magnum 6spd - https://www.facebook.com/GoodysGotaHemi
2020 RAM 1500
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v9yezP9.jpg[/img]
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