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#2524157 - 07/19/18 02:49 PM Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine?
hudsonhornet7x Online   content
super stock

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 1061
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Just like the title says. Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine?

What would need to be done to the 4 speed to make it live.

3600lb B body, Drag radials, 90% street, 10% strip.
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#2524174 - 07/19/18 03:30 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
6bblFLASH Offline
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Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 3537
Loc: N.E. Ohio
No.
Not with a street friendly clutch.
too much torq. IMO.
Slipper clutch at the track ,yes.
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70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas 9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ! 2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!

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#2524179 - 07/19/18 03:43 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
fast68plymouth Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11056
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Just swap out the drag radials for some repop G70-14’s with about 40psi in them...... it should be fine.
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#2524195 - 07/19/18 04:40 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: fast68plymouth]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
It most definitely would not hold up.......
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68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524202 - 07/19/18 05:03 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2120
Loc: Washington
With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2524276 - 07/19/18 08:36 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: madscientist]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Originally Posted By madscientist
With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.


what does the clutch have to do with it when you exceed the torque rating of the transmission by hundreds of ft. pounds? I have broke more third gears than I can count, never one time was my foot on the clutch...... Clutches don't break these Hemi 18 spline Transmissions. It's a heavy car that hooks, and with a lot of power.


Edited by Old School (07/19/18 08:40 PM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524281 - 07/19/18 08:51 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
savoy64 Online   content
top fuel

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1808
Loc: colorado
a friend went with a 833 hemi build (with OD) from passon---it lives behind a 440 stroker with a blower----it broke a few 8.75 before a dana 60 was built for it----it sees regular drag race duty and goes on hundred mile jaunts to car shows----been in use for more than 7 years now.....

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#2524283 - 07/19/18 08:54 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: Old School]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2120
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By Old School
Originally Posted By madscientist
With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.


what does the clutch have to do with it when you exceed the torque rating of the transmission by hundreds of ft. pounds? I have broke more third gears than I can count, never one time was my foot on the clutch...... Clutches don't break these Hemi 18 spline Transmissions. It's a heavy car that hooks, and with a lot of power.


I typed it out in another thread. Clutches break parts. It's that simple. If you think the 833 is internally weaker than the modern junk they produce today you have not done much with a stick.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2524290 - 07/19/18 09:09 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: madscientist]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Old School
Originally Posted By madscientist
With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.


what does the clutch have to do with it when you exceed the torque rating of the transmission by hundreds of ft. pounds? I have broke more third gears than I can count, never one time was my foot on the clutch...... Clutches don't break these Hemi 18 spline Transmissions. It's a heavy car that hooks, and with a lot of power.


I typed it out in another thread. Clutches break parts. It's that simple. If you think the 833 is internally weaker than the modern junk they produce today you have not done much with a stick.


Ok. I can put any of your recommended clutches in, and continue to break gears in an 18 spline transmission.

manual transmission cars are all that I have ever had. I have never owned an automatic car... you should talk to Passion performance or Brewers performance about the limits of these 18 spline Transmissions.


Edited by Old School (07/19/18 09:13 PM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524311 - 07/19/18 10:05 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: Old School]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2120
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By Old School
Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Old School
Originally Posted By madscientist
With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.


what does the clutch have to do with it when you exceed the torque rating of the transmission by hundreds of ft. pounds? I have broke more third gears than I can count, never one time was my foot on the clutch...... Clutches don't break these Hemi 18 spline Transmissions. It's a heavy car that hooks, and with a lot of power.


I typed it out in another thread. Clutches break parts. It's that simple. If you think the 833 is internally weaker than the modern junk they produce today you have not done much with a stick.


Ok. I can put any of your recommended clutches in, and continue to break gears in an 18 spline transmission.

manual transmission cars are all that I have ever had. I have never owned an automatic car... you should talk to Passion performance or Brewers performance about the limits of these 18 spline Transmissions.


I've never had an 18 spline box. Only 23 spline boxes. If I want to know about transmissions and clutches, I call Liberty and G-Force.
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Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2524349 - 07/19/18 11:55 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: madscientist]
Jeremiah Offline
master

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 8104
Loc: Rogue River, OR
At 707hp and what weight? I have one on the shelf that would live with the right clutch...for a while.

edit: I see the 3600 lbs.

You would be better off installing a G Force 4-speed IMO. I have a "fall race" (not 3/4) face plated, 9310 geared unit with an aluminum case, billet this and that, etc. IMO it's limit, with longevity in mind, would be about 650hp at 3600ish lbs. More power or weight and you need to look at at transmission with wider, straight cut gears.

That said if you don't dead hook it a face plated a-833 might lat for quite some time. My situation (750hp, 3550lbs) made me nervous (and lazy) so I went with a GF5R which is rated to 1400 at 3400 lbs.

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#2524371 - 07/20/18 01:06 AM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
OhioMopar Online   content
master

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 8201
Loc: Mt.Gilead, Ohio
From what I've learned talking to Wayne and Dan, most of it will live. Third gear will not if you stay in the gas while shifting.
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#2524480 - 07/20/18 10:18 AM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: OhioMopar]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
This is what happens to 3rd gear in a Hemi 18 spline 4-speed when you have too heavy of a car and too much power. My son's just broke two days ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch......


Attachments
15320962686381936012547.jpg


_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524483 - 07/20/18 10:19 AM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: Old School]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
If you notice in the pic it's always 3rd gear. I have never broken any other gears.

It doesn't always break the drive gear but it breaks the cluster gear every time.

I have gotten rid of every one of my 18 spine Transmissions. I replace them with Jamie passions new 5 speed overdrive's. Same power same clutch no problems. I have three of them one of them is behind my 588 that makes 960 horsepower.


Edited by Old School (07/20/18 10:34 AM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524489 - 07/20/18 10:37 AM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: Old School]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
I have been at passons shop and have seen the new 5 speed apart. It's obvious to see how it can handle so much more power. the biggest problem is flex in the main shaft which this new transmission does not have. There is also no flex in the counter shaft.


Edited by Old School (07/20/18 10:45 AM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524524 - 07/20/18 11:48 AM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
weedburner Offline


Registered: 10/21/14
Posts: 54
Loc: Washington
You are wrong thinking your gear failures have nothing to do with the clutch. Torque going thru the gearbox is always higher than engine torque while the clutch is pulling the engine down, how fast the clutch pulls the engine down determines how much extra torque the gearbox will see.

Grant

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#2524542 - 07/20/18 12:19 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: weedburner]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Originally Posted By weedburner
You are wrong thinking your gear failures have nothing to do with the clutch. Torque going thru the gearbox is always higher than engine torque while the clutch is pulling the engine down, how fast the clutch pulls the engine down determines how much extra torque the gearbox will see.

Grant


Okay I give up. it has nothing to do with exceeding the torque capability that the trans is capable of. It's all in the clutch......


Edited by Old School (07/20/18 12:20 PM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524545 - 07/20/18 12:28 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: Old School]
68shifter Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 1107
Loc: MI
Originally Posted By Old School
This is what happens to 3rd gear in a Hemi 18 spline 4-speed when you have too heavy of a car and too much power. My son's just broke two days ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch......


Old School nailed it. They don’t break as you shift third, they almost always break right before you pull 4th it seems like. No 2/3 bearing support, and look at how much the tooth actually engages. Cases flex, rpm and torque drive the two shafts apart. They’re 50 year old parts for Christ sake. We upgrade everything else then piss and moan about a trans. Good used DR4s are 2500, break an 18 spline twice and youve paid for it.

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#2524548 - 07/20/18 12:32 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: 68shifter]
Old School Offline
super stock

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 1153
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Originally Posted By 68shifter
Originally Posted By Old School
This is what happens to 3rd gear in a Hemi 18 spline 4-speed when you have too heavy of a car and too much power. My son's just broke two days ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch......


Old School nailed it. They don’t break as you shift third, they almost always break right before you pull 4th it seems like. No 2/3 bearing support, and look at how much the tooth actually engages. Cases flex, rpm and torque drive the two shafts apart. They’re 50 year old parts for Christ sake. We upgrade everything else then piss and moan about a trans. Good used DR4s are 2500, break an 18 spline twice and youve paid for it.


68shifter you nailed it as well. That is exactly when they all break, and why they break. they will also break when you unload the trans by letting up,and then hitting the throttle again. All the while not even having your foot on the clutch.


Edited by Old School (07/20/18 12:34 PM)
_________________________
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!

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#2524574 - 07/20/18 01:08 PM Re: Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine? [Re: weedburner]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2120
Loc: Washington
Originally Posted By weedburner
You are wrong thinking your gear failures have nothing to do with the clutch. Torque going thru the gearbox is always higher than engine torque while the clutch is pulling the engine down, how fast the clutch pulls the engine down determines how much extra torque the gearbox will see.

Grant



You can't fix 1975 clutch technology if they aren't willing to learn.

They would rather keep breaking gear boxes and spending money over and over and over than buy one good clutch.

I've broken more than a dozen 3rd gears. Have a buddy who used an 833 behind his Chevy. Broke four 3rd gears. He bought a Ram at the same time I bought a McLeod.

Neither one of us ever broke another one.
_________________________
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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