Just like the title says. Could an 833 live behind a Hellcat engine?

What would need to be done to the 4 speed to make it live.

3600lb B body, Drag radials, 90% street, 10% strip.

No.
Not with a street friendly clutch.
too much torq. IMO.
Slipper clutch at the track ,yes.

Just swap out the drag radials for some repop G70-14’s with about 40psi in them...... it should be fine.

It most definitely would not hold up.......

With the correct clutch it will. Again, you can use a sintered iron disc on the street. Been doing it for years. Done correctly, an 833 will live behind a bunch of power as long as you don't beat the hell out of it with a junk clutch and a heavy flywheel.

what does the clutch have to do with it when you exceed the torque rating of the transmission by hundreds of ft. pounds? I have broke more third gears than I can count, never one time was my foot on the clutch...... Clutches don't break these Hemi 18 spline Transmissions. It's a heavy car that hooks, and with a lot of power.

a friend went with a 833 hemi build (with OD) from passon---it lives behind a 440 stroker with a blower----it broke a few 8.75 before a dana 60 was built for it----it sees regular drag race duty and goes on hundred mile jaunts to car shows----been in use for more than 7 years now.....

I typed it out in another thread. Clutches break parts. It's that simple. If you think the 833 is internally weaker than the modern junk they produce today you have not done much with a stick.

Ok. I can put any of your recommended clutches in, and continue to break gears in an 18 spline transmission.

manual transmission cars are all that I have ever had. I have never owned an automatic car... you should talk to Passion performance or Brewers performance about the limits of these 18 spline Transmissions.

I've never had an 18 spline box. Only 23 spline boxes. If I want to know about transmissions and clutches, I call Liberty and G-Force.

At 707hp and what weight? I have one on the shelf that would live with the right clutch...for a while.

edit: I see the 3600 lbs.

You would be better off installing a G Force 4-speed IMO. I have a "fall race" (not 3/4) face plated, 9310 geared unit with an aluminum case, billet this and that, etc. IMO it's limit, with longevity in mind, would be about 650hp at 3600ish lbs. More power or weight and you need to look at at transmission with wider, straight cut gears.

That said if you don't dead hook it a face plated a-833 might lat for quite some time. My situation (750hp, 3550lbs) made me nervous (and lazy) so I went with a GF5R which is rated to 1400 at 3400 lbs.

From what I've learned talking to Wayne and Dan, most of it will live. Third gear will not if you stay in the gas while shifting.

This is what happens to 3rd gear in a Hemi 18 spline 4-speed when you have too heavy of a car and too much power. My son's just broke two days ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with the clutch......

If you notice in the pic it's always 3rd gear. I have never broken any other gears.

It doesn't always break the drive gear but it breaks the cluster gear every time.

I have gotten rid of every one of my 18 spine Transmissions. I replace them with Jamie passions new 5 speed overdrive's. Same power same clutch no problems. I have three of them one of them is behind my 588 that makes 960 horsepower.

I have been at passons shop and have seen the new 5 speed apart. It's obvious to see how it can handle so much more power. the biggest problem is flex in the main shaft which this new transmission does not have. There is also no flex in the counter shaft.

You are wrong thinking your gear failures have nothing to do with the clutch. Torque going thru the gearbox is always higher than engine torque while the clutch is pulling the engine down, how fast the clutch pulls the engine down determines how much extra torque the gearbox will see.

Grant

Okay I give up. it has nothing to do with exceeding the torque capability that the trans is capable of. It's all in the clutch......

Old School nailed it. They don’t break as you shift third, they almost always break right before you pull 4th it seems like. No 2/3 bearing support, and look at how much the tooth actually engages. Cases flex, rpm and torque drive the two shafts apart. They’re 50 year old parts for Christ sake. We upgrade everything else then piss and moan about a trans. Good used DR4s are 2500, break an 18 spline twice and youve paid for it.

68shifter you nailed it as well. That is exactly when they all break, and why they break. they will also break when you unload the trans by letting up,and then hitting the throttle again. All the while not even having your foot on the clutch.

You can't fix 1975 clutch technology if they aren't willing to learn.

They would rather keep breaking gear boxes and spending money over and over and over than buy one good clutch.

I've broken more than a dozen 3rd gears. Have a buddy who used an 833 behind his Chevy. Broke four 3rd gears. He bought a Ram at the same time I bought a McLeod.

Neither one of us ever broke another one.

Using your logic. You could throw a couple thousand horsepower through one and it would be okay if using one of your recommended clutches. Also I don't use a 1975 style clutch.I use modern $1,200 clutches.....

I’ve been using a Ram sintered iron from Tim for 15yrs, a single Ram Billet 8” and a twin 7.25”. Whether or not you like it the trans has limitations. Call Liberty, GForce or Jerico, Bubba at GForce is who I deal with.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP.

That's about half what a good clutch costs. Do what you want. I never said you can dump 2k HP through an 833. You did. That was beyond the design limits of the gear box. Any other box designed with the same limits as an 833 will take the same power levels.

It's all good madscientist.We will just have to agree to disagree👍

They all crack before they break...

When I was ordering some replacement parts for my Pro Shifted 833 from Liberty Gears ,we got to talking and the guy there said your going to blow out 3rd gear. What ? I never had a problem with my 11.40 motor , but 10.30 motor took care of 3rd gear on the first hard run. Dummy me rebuilt it and BOOM!!!!! That was the end of 833's for me.

So back to the OP's question. Sounds like a 833 hooked to a Hellcat engine is just 3rd gear waiting to blow.

Does Mopar even offer a manual transmission behind the Hellcat or Demon engine or is it auto only?

Im pretty sure there is Only One choice automatic transmission option for the hellcat and demon. The same for the new scatpac as well.

$15,000+ motor $200 transmission, that will work.

You must have had a crappy clutch! 😁😁😁

There are manual transmission hellcats and I believe they use the same tr6060 as the viper

You R correct.

Seems quite a few people here must not have lived in the 70’s with Super Stock, Modified Production and Pro Stock drag racing Mopars.

All of them had slick shifted 833’s - SS/A cars in the early to mid 70’’s were going high 9’s, A/MP with 426 at 3400 lbs going 9.40’s.

How about the Hemi E bodies at 3800 #.

Seems quite a few people here must not have lived in the 70’s with Super Stock, Modified Production and Pro Stock drag racing Mopars.

All of them had slick shifted 833’s - SS/A cars in the early to mid 70’’s were going high 9’s, A/MP with 426 at 3400 lbs going 9.40’s.

How about the Hemi E bodies at 3800 #.



And they lasted how many 1/4 runs on forgiving tires.

I myself think even wanting to put a 833 behind a hellcat motor is simply goofy.

Ive a stack of busted up slick shift/liberty trans on the shelf, went to a GF101, never changed my driving habits and never an issue.

Yep, what he said and get an open 8 3/4 to go with it.

Controlling the clutch engagement I'm thinking controls the shock load the transmission sees.

This is all over my pay grade but I'd bet it's shock load that's taking out third gear more so than raw torque. The first shock load wounds it and then it's just a matter time.

I'm sure a detailed failure analysis would tell the tale one way or another.

Kevin

I asked this question because I have had very good experiences with the 833. Not everyone wants to run a newer 6 speed trans and frankly I have no experience with the aftermarket 4 speeds some of you folks have mentioned.

I've run my Cuda at 3,000 lbs in the low 10's, high 9's for years without hurting the Hemi boxes. I had 2 of them. The gears would go back to Liberty for magnaflux and relug on a regular basis. If they said that the gear was cracked, it got replaced. They always sent the old gears back to me and circled the cracked areas. Eyeball inspection never found the cracks that they found until after they returned them. Magnaflux is a wonderful thing. Probably saved me from a ton of disasters. The right clutch goes a long way in transmission endurance. I think a 833 will work reasonable well behind a Hellcat engine with the right clutch. Power management like the factory software wouldn't hurt either.

Some people.. can tear up an anvil.
Shock loads, IMO, brake things, not so much the torque. Look at all those weak little parts in an auto trans, 727 with 904 guts behind a Hemi S/S, quite a bit of HP-Torque to run 8.15 with a 3200 lb car. Oh yea, it's got a converter to soften the hit, like a soft clutch I guess.
A friend runs a comp car, 6 speed. He "sets" the clutch so there's very little rpm drop (slips) between shifts. I've heard the sound recording from in the car, you never hear the shift. Now he does have the good trans, but nothing in the drive line has broken in all the years other than clutch wear-replacement.
700 HP and 3500lb cars, something better slip.

For you guys breaking third gear - what gear do you do your burnouts in?

I do my burnouts in 2nd gear, never broke 1st or 2nd gear. 3rd gear is on the end of the output shaft. The 3rd gear breakage is due to the input shaft and the output shaft flexing away from the cluster gear, basically trying to climb over or away from the cluster gear from pressure [ torque ]. Less tooth engagement = stripped teeth. Possible causes , worn pilot bearing, case input shaft bearing , input needle bearing. or your engine has to much torque!