there's been a few magazines and shops take all the components including sensors and instruments into an old car, but has anyone here done it? I really want to experiment with a gen3 and coupling it with the modern trans would make a great choice in my street car, but if the hurdles are too high I might use one in my bracket car and just use a 727.

Guys are using the NAG1, you can use factory computers to run engine and trans; which means you need all the sensors. The other option is to go with a stand alone system for the engine and another for the trans. The engine is the easy one. For the trans, the guy to talk to is Sound German Automotive. http://soundgermanautomotive.com/

The blue GTX on his web site is mine. 5.7 /NAG1. Get the TCM from Russell. He was the FINAL solution when I built my car because NO ONE knew how to program a NAG1 when I did this swap it was 2014 or so when the people who sold me the computer gave up his name as the source since they screwed me over for 2 years before they finally admitted they could not program it.
HE is the NAG1 GURU!
It is an AWESOME performing set up. I get 18-20 MPG and have had even better when I am FORCED to keep it at 65mph. PLENTY of power, lots of speed. I have an 8 3/4 with 2:76 gear. You will love this set up for cruising and daily driving. Performs well on a road course too. I have not had it down the 1/4 yet. 14k miles in 3+ years and not one problem!

Cool! Do you have a build thread on here? What did you have to do to get the nag1 to fit? Is there an adaptor for the speedo or are you running aftermarket gauges?
What did the stand alone computer cost?

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/b-body-stiffening.1121/

Here is a link to a build thread on my car. It will answer tons of questions. It is a long read though. I think I pad around $1800 fro the TCM and I had to run after market ,Autometer, gauges. All explained in the thread.

Awesome, I'll have a read.

Back in 2007 or so I danced with this idea, but there was only 1 company I could find helping people out with the swap then (I can't remember the name and can't seem to find them) they were down south somewhere and did GM swaps as well. I was debating 5.7/nag1, 5.7/518, 383/A500. I wanted to turbocharge and a local shop builds the big block to a500 conversion so I went that way. In 2009 I EFI'ed my 383 with a classic FAST box and in 2012 twin turbo'ed it. Still running that way but the itch to mess with a Gen 3 remains. My first car, a 69 Coronet has been languishing the last decade while we grew up some kiddos. It's set up to bracket race now (but no engine program left) and I have a 76MM turbo for it as well. I could do a 5.7/6.1 there but just use a 727.
But I have all this BB stuff laying around to put a program back in place.
But the street car would reap the benefits of the modern drivetrain.
But the street car runs as it does today EFI/turbo.

But but but and a string of 1st world problems to sort out

Wow, your car is insane Darius!!! Much more than what I had assumed was 'just' a 5.7/nag1 transplant.

From your thread and some others it's a little unclear, at this point in time can a guy run the stock harness and computers and get by with a Diablo tuner? Some other people were saying that and I think you even were saying 'if so then I wish that existed when I did mine'?

I would want to turbocharge though, so would I be looking at spending $ on the hard parts of the nag1 as well then? 4200lbs Fury, really 'only' looking for 550-600hp or so, just 'fun' with the stock idle and drive characteristics.

I think, based on MY experience, the BEST way to run the stock harness is if you run ALL 5 computers PLUS bring the rear axle assy or figure a way to install the tone rings and speed sensors on the rear axle. That harness is so HUGE with so many wires, both regular car current AND the digital transfer wiring that it is a nightmare to trace down and eliminate the stuff you don't want or need, like the fact it is from a 4 door car and you are installing in a 2 door. In the thread you can see where I actually had the harness in the GTX and ended up taking it out and just rewiring the entire car from scratch. Now this is if you are doing the dash and all like I did. If you stay with a stock dash or even run after market gauges you have a different deal. In my case, the Diablo only serves the engine management settings, nothing to do with the transmission inputs other than any RPM variable and that just CAUSES the shift points to vary accordingly. The guy I bought the TCM from told me they wanted it to use on the LX platforms they were racing and building 1000hp engines for. They never intended to use it in a retro type install.

To keep costs reasonable I was hoping for a different outcome, I'm sure the same reason you started with the stock stuff as well.
I would only be doing engine/trans/shifter and leaving the rest of the car alone.

So you have the stock ECM, the german TCU, and a hotwire harness now? Do you not need the front control module then?

Separately I need to learn about engine management capabilities for boost, need to read the LX forums for that.

That is correct..stock ECM, TCM, Haywire harness with a 24 space fuse block.
No anti lock, air bag, or body controls computers.
Diablo will allow engine management to some pretty good degree but to be honest with you, I have never messed with that since we got the car running, it was that good from the get go. I don't race the car so I am not that particular about that aspect. It performs so well I don't feel the need to mess with it!

yes, if I wasn't already a boost junky I'd leave the ECM alone - and ideally I'd retain it for non=boost driving. That's been the hardest part about the EFI on my 383. Dialing in WOT is 'simple', dialing in the 1000's of different everyday driving scenarios is difficult and takes time. Mine drives fine but cold start hiccups a bit and I'm throwing mpg away I know just because I haven't had the 1000's of hrs to drive and tune like the OEM ECM's get.

Have you looked at this?

http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-nag1

yes, over the weekend, that was helpful! Looks like they can do JY sourcing of many of the computers of preference if I can't source a full lift out. The next piece is for me to understand fuel and timing with boost. On the LX forums it looks like the tuners are only capable of setting the WOT closed loop tables such that you can only have boost at WOT, at partial throttle it won't adjust and you'll go boom. I'm used to speed density system where I can control it at any MAP reading.

You need to get in touch with a good CMR tuner (hemifever, Greene Racing etc) for the boost stuff, or by the software yourself and become a tuner!

was the NAG1 available with the 6.4 hemi?if so id like to do that swap into a 70 challenger i have, wondering what yr donor cars to look for to get the complete package...thnx

Yep, from 2011-2014 until the 8 spd came out in 2015. NAG1's a tough transmission

Nag1 lived behind the 5.5L supercharged Benzo that made like 700lbft as well, but not all are equal. Anyone know the hard parts upgrades from ones behind 5.7, 6.1, and 6.4?
I emailed hemifever off his own website, never heard back fwiw. Other guy seems to only be on FB and I'm not.

Any1 have measurements on the nag1? my a500 fit the C body with no cutting, just a new cross member....could I be so lucky with the nag1?

sykedecutuning.com

I have a pic of them side by side...

Is that from the interwebs or do you have all 3 and can take more photos? If so I'd really appreciate it!

Wow, the NAG looks like it’ll fit without to much tunnel surgery. If someone would do a kit for these transmissions for retrofits I think they’d sell

Darius had to raise his tunnel in a B body per his build thread, didn't look terrible. I'd like to see more photos and measurements to gauge the fit.

I had someone send me the pic. I've had it a long time. I've talked to a person who put the NAG1 in an ebody, he said all he had to do was do some bending of the dipstick tube to get it to fit.

A buddy built a 71 Challenger Convertible with a 392 and a NAG1 trans.

Here's a link to his website with pics on the build. http://www.lotsapins.com/Hemiswap/pics.htm

The crossmember is further back on an e-body vs b-body... that makes a world of difference in a 518 swap also. I imagine it's the same deal for these transmissions.

going back through cbodydrydock.com threads I found this pic showing tunnel mods when running the 545RFE. Now I want the dimensions of the 545RFE as well to compare :P

the source of the pictures

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=94294.0

I was changing the oil in my 2012 charger this weekend with the 3.6 and TF8. I couldn't get any good measurements of the TF8 in the car but it's near 30" bellhousing to mount and at the mount still seemed to be 9" tall (9" diameter). It's a big dude. The tunnel in the car looks huge from the underside.

Good find on the pics! Yes, the 8 speed is huge. There is a guy on Facebook putting one in a car...let me see if I can find the info for you.

Joel Applegate is his name. He frequents the page G3 Hemi Swap. Here is a picture of his swap, but doesnt show you much. There are two sizes of the 8 speed, the "90" and the "70". The "70" is smaller but doesn't handle as much hp.

Where on Facebook is this swap and what is he using for a controller?

The page is called G3 Hemi Swap. I don't know the details on a controller or if he is using all the factory stuff. I know people are working on it to try and crack the code.

Just a thought, I was under my 93 Mersedes 300 SD and noticed that trans looks just like the Nag One. Bell bolts on just like the Nag plus this trans has a shifter and is modulated by vacuum. This is a 4 speed but the gas engines are 5 speed. No computers, no electronics.
If they s would work, what an option.

hmmm, I know they made them for a long time, but is there actually a hydro/vac controlled 5spd version that handles any real torque? That would be really intriguing if you can bolt on a hemi bell...

wikipedia only says this

722.5 — 5-speed (hydraulically controlled 4-speed with additional electrically controlled 5th overdrive gear)

no actual page for it, but a page for the 4spd before and the 722.6, of course :P

google isn't being my friend, can't find much about the trans, it's construction, or torque rating

this one does not have a bolt on bell and is much skinnier than a .6

https://www.ebay.com/itm/94-97-Mercedes-R129-SL320-Automatic-Transmission-Assembly-722-507-76k/113145830970?hash=item1a58045e3a:g:VAYAAOSw4v1bRvto

this might be worth $10 tho lol

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATSG-Mercedes-722-5-manual/273422192424?hash=item3fa93b8f28:g:QRwAAOSwQ19arXdx

I asked Russell Drake about them and he said the 722.5 is weak, only went behind v6.

The S class cars will have the better one. Mines a turbo 6 and the gas is a straight 6 and V8.
The lowly PG wasn't much before the aftermarket got there hands on it either.

so what do you do with that clunky mercedes shifter? looks like it would be hard to cut down to fit into a stock console.....i am leaning toward a 46HD where you can use the stock shifter and console-----with this much power i cant see the need for a 6 or 8 speed unless its is just to brag about all the gears and how cool it is.........

For me it's about the mpg for daily driving. My charger gets 7mpg with a slobbery cam. Fury gets 10-11. 5.7 + oem 5spd should be 15+mpg commuting. Plus I'm used to many gears now. Plus it's a fun engineering project.

Are there benzo forums to learn more about this?

Any cable shifter would work with the right gate, just a lever like a 727 and no kick down lever, works off vacuum. Hot rod ingenuity will be required.
I wouldn't even bother if it didn't have overdrive in 4th or 5th. Waste of time.

Depends on what the lower gear ratios are whether it would be a waste of time or not. A 4something:1 1st with good progressions to a 1:1 5th would make a 2.76 diff pretty sporty.

Kevin

Russell says you can use your original shifter but you have to put in some micro switches. This will make it compatible with the newer shifter "electronics" - his controler - to make it work.

Savoy, I went with a 42RH and strengthen it during the rebuild. They can handle a lot more power that way. The 42RH is smaller and uses less power to turn vs. 46RH. The 42RH also has a better gear spread (2.74 vs. 2.45 1st gear). 2nd gear slightly different as well with 3rd and OD being the same. If you are building a cruiser and around or under 400hp, I think this is the way to go. Look for in 93-94 dakotas, mine came from a V6. The V-8 42rh has a different drum to hold more clutches but if you can add that later. I didn't. I am not that knowledgeable so I upgraded everything I could.

I read a few times here in Moparts that you want a "10 to 1" ratio for first gear. A 2.74 first gear and a 3.55 in the diff gets you just about that. With the .69 OD, that brings the 3.55 down to a 2.45! Awesome for highway cruising.

I would have went for the NAG1 instead had I only the one project car to spend the bucks on.

yep----i run a 42rh on my 318 64 savoy-----the upgrade is basically 998-999 stuff-----and the 2006 i drive has some type of electric shifting between 3-5-----i still think factory shifter looks like crap in a vintage mopar---but thats just me.....

On the tunnel mod, I raised it appx 3/4". If I had it to do over i would have cut the long side on the passenger side and the top and bottom ends and simply rolled the "lid" up and patch back in the gap.
As for mileage, I get very consistent 18 around town and have had as much as 25mpg when I am "forced" to maintain posted speed limits! Also ran the GTX on the 1/4 mile last week. First run EVER in that car and I ran a 14.07. A few more runs and get my light timing down and it will be in the high 13's.
Weight is 3700 lbs exactly with 53% front and 47% rear.
Russell is great!