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#2512449 - 06/24/18 01:42 AM Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question
Pockets Offline
member

Registered: 11/07/17
Posts: 17
Loc: AB
Friend installed a crane solid roller in his engine, Crane R-272/420-2-10 #688821
272/282@.050”, 304/314, .630/.630”, 110/105, .020”/.020” lash. He used Crower 66384 lifters which have a .750” wheel. Crane calls for their 66542 lifter which has an .815” wheel. Will this cause a loss of performance?

He also didn’t used the recommended Crane springs, he used Comp springs. They are 42 lbs light on open pressure.
99885 springs
215@1.95”
685@1.2”
618 lbs/in
.610” lift 592 lbs

943-16 springs used
212@1.95”
626@1.2”
551 lbs/in
.610” lift 548 lbs

His engine goes flat and loses power over 6000 rpm, stops pulling on the drag strip. Trick Flow 240 heads, trick flow single plane, quick fuel q950 carb. 493 RB striker, 11.9:1, 2” headers.

Would the light open pressure springs cause an issue? I told him to get the Crane springs, as 40lbs light on open pressure is a lot I thought.

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#2512465 - 06/24/18 05:59 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
crabman173 Offline
master

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3728
Loc: Big Lick , North Carolina
could be fuel issues as in running out--not enough volume etc
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#2512467 - 06/24/18 06:06 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3290
Loc: The Netherlands
An AFR gauge would tell about any fuel mixture-issues.
Valve float could be an issue.
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#2512541 - 06/24/18 10:28 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Dduster Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 535
Loc: Livermore, CA
Try a larger carb to see if the motor is running out of air on the top end. What is the RPM at the stripe? Check for coil bind. Where is the cam installed for intake max lift? What is the 'true' max lift at valve retainer?

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#2512543 - 06/24/18 10:42 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: BigBlockMopar]
B1MAXX Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 740
Loc: Apollo, PA.
Used 943's before, it's a proven spring in my opinion. I usually set them up at 1.88-1.90 that covers rollers in the .650-.690 range. Check for "x" pattern on the valve tips. sure sign of valve bounce /float.

Just so we get a good look at this.
1.95 installed height.
minus net lift say .610
equals 1.34
minus coil bind 1.16
equals .180 from bind
That's too much in my opinion should be .06 to .09 to make things happy.

This relates to valve spring set-up you could be having other issues. would be interesting to hear your results from a valve spring shim-up.

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#2512546 - 06/24/18 10:49 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
sr4440 Offline
mopar

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 456
Loc: Central TEXAS!!!!
the smaller wheel will cause a small loss of duration.
what is the installed height?
whats the lift at the valve?
knowing this info will allow you to possible shim the valve spring and get some additional pressure.

also what do the plugs look like?

Joe
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#2512584 - 06/24/18 11:45 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Pockets Offline
member

Registered: 11/07/17
Posts: 17
Loc: AB
The fuel system was never an issue before, Magnafuel ProStar 500 pump, with -10 to the regulator, dual -6 feed. This is the car when a previous owner had it. Only the engine and trans is different.
https://www.dragzine.com/news/hump-day-holeshot-70-sport-satellite-pulls-impressive-wheelies/

He also ran a Q1050 carb on it, no change. RPM at the stripe is 6500, but he says it is dead after 6000. Cam is installed straight up. I am not sure about the max lift at the retainer, Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers.

Install height is at 1.95" spec. Do you think shimming them to higher pressure, to bring the open pressure to what Crane suggests, will hurt anything given that the seat pressure will also go up? If he set them at 1.87" seat they would be 256 lbs, and at 1.26" (.610" lift) 592 lbs. (at what the Crane springs would be).

The cam card also gives conflicting spring pressures. Says a 99885 spring, 215 lbs @ 1.95", and 565 @ 1.36".

I can't say what the plugs look like, he never mentioned.

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#2512594 - 06/24/18 12:02 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
B1MAXX Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 740
Loc: Apollo, PA.
usually seat is what it is. It's more about running the spring up to .06-.09 of bind. However in my opinion less than 230 seat pressure on a
race roller is asking for trouble in my opinion.

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#2512625 - 06/24/18 01:05 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18729
Loc: State of confusion
Put a Dommy on that thing and wake it's azz up already and fwiw, my Solid roller Isky .680-.660 276-281 @ .050 had 210-580 for the first few years pulling past 7000 and ran 9's and low 6's............I went to 245-620 and saw no difference........... beer


Edited by Thumperdart (06/24/18 03:50 PM)
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#2512648 - 06/24/18 02:05 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
sr4440 Offline
mopar

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 456
Loc: Central TEXAS!!!!
your not going to be able to shim it to make up the difference, you will pick up 5.1 lbs per .010.

again knowing what your total lift is at the valve will let you know how much you can shim them.


Joe
_________________________
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.

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#2512714 - 06/24/18 05:40 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Pockets Offline
member

Registered: 11/07/17
Posts: 17
Loc: AB
The comp springs are 551 rate, so if they can me shimmed .080”, that will add 44 lbs to the rate. Would bring it to 592 at .610”lift.

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#2512746 - 06/24/18 07:02 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10877
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I’d adjust the installed height to 1.880-1.900 as the first step.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2512751 - 06/24/18 07:15 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Ian Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: Victoria, Australia
i run this cam in my small block and it likes a good spring at 6900 rpm i made 710 hp but it was valve balancing my exhaust should of peaked 7400 rpm i am shimming mine to 070 to coil bind with a pac 1225
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#2512779 - 06/24/18 08:32 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10877
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
My SR headed 451RB made peak power at 7200 with a moderate .435 roller lobe, 1.5 rockers, and Isky 9375/85 springs that were about 250/550.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2512821 - 06/24/18 09:57 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Cab_Burge Online   content
I Win

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 30929
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By Pockets
Friend installed a crane solid roller in his engine, Crane R-272/420-2-10 #688821
272/282@.050”, 304/314, .630/.630”, 110/105, .020”/.020” lash. He used Crower 66384 lifters which have a .750” wheel. Crane calls for their 66542 lifter which has an .815” wheel. Will this cause a loss of performance?

He also didn’t used the recommended Crane springs, he used Comp springs. They are 42 lbs light on open pressure.
99885 springs
215@1.95”
685@1.2”
618 lbs/in
.610” lift 592 lbs

943-16 springs used
212@1.95”
626@1.2”
551 lbs/in
.610” lift 548 lbs

His engine goes flat and loses power over 6000 rpm, stops pulling on the drag strip. Trick Flow 240 heads, trick flow single plane, quick fuel q950 carb. 493 RB striker, 11.9:1, 2” headers.

Would the light open pressure springs cause an issue? I told him to get the Crane springs, as 40lbs light on open pressure is a lot I thought.

Why do people due this to themselves confused
Buy and use parts that are not recommended for their application shruggy
Why did he make the cam seem smaller to the motor using those small wheel rollers confused
You reap what you sew work
Does the motor nose over at 6000 RPM in all gears or just at the finish line?
All the BB solid roller cam motors I've built and used all revved well past 6000 RPM, even my old six pack 4.300 stroke 400 pump gas motor in the car at the track work shruggy
From 220 lbs. on the seats to 325 lbs. on the seats and from 620 Lbs. over the nose to 870 Lbs. over the nose confused
Good luck, let us know what you find thumbs
BTW, I do set all the springs up from .060 to .075 from coil bind on all the springs, no matter what the pressures thumbs
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#2512864 - 06/24/18 11:47 PM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
Pockets Offline
member

Registered: 11/07/17
Posts: 17
Loc: AB
He did some trading for the cam, and had the crower lifters already. No one stocks Crane parts in Western Canada, and a couple shops told him to run the comp springs.

It revs past 6000 no problem, but goes flat past 6000 in all the gears.

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#2512965 - 06/25/18 10:16 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10877
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
I guess we might need a better definition of “goes flat”.

I assumed you were saying the motor didn’t want to rev past 6k.

If the motor will pull 7k in like 2nd year, it’s unlikely the springs are your issue(or the lifters or lifter wheels).

That being said, it’s a cheap and easy test to decrease the spring installed height and see if the point where the motor goes flat changes at all.

I don’t know if the pushrods have been mentioned, but I’d want 3/8” .080 wall heat treated at a minimum.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2512987 - 06/25/18 11:00 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
ss/la Offline
member

Registered: 03/28/16
Posts: 15
Loc: fla
you don't have anywhere close to enough valve spring. and roller diameter will totally change the way you motor sees the cam not just duration I run well over 300 on the seat and will pull past 9000

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#2512997 - 06/25/18 11:12 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: Pockets]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10877
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
.433 lobe with Hughes 1.6 rockers, Victor heads, PAC 1243 spring(same as comp 943), 1.900 installed height, peak power at 6800-7k.

Chip is running the same spring at 1.950 in his 572 hemi with .420 lobes, and when he’s spraying it, it turns about 7500 through the traps.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2513000 - 06/25/18 11:15 AM Re: Solid roller cam valve spring and lifter question [Re: fast68plymouth]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10650
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
.433 lobe with Hughes 1.6 rockers, Victor heads, PAC 1243 spring(same as comp 943), 1.900 installed height, peak power at 6800-7k.

Chip is running the same spring at 1.950 in his 572 hemi with .420 lobes, and when he’s spraying it, it turns about 7500 through the traps.

iagree
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'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
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