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Re: Super Sniper install [Re: HDNMOPERS] #2511003
06/20/18 07:39 PM
06/20/18 07:39 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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All two wide-bands would do with TBI is verify that each side of the engine is ok, which you should already know.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511168
06/21/18 01:48 AM
06/21/18 01:48 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By AndyF
I'm running a Performer RPM with a one inch spacer at the moment. I'll most likely end up swapping intakes later this summer as a test just to see how she works with a single plane intake.

The engine runs like a beast with the Performer RPM but I don't have 8 02 sensors so I can't tell you if I'm having distribution problems or not.
look at all eight spark plugs now before changing the intake, they will talk to you scope twocents
Isn't to much power almost just right devil


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511602
06/22/18 02:39 AM
06/22/18 02:39 AM
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I switched over to a progressive throttle linkage. The progressive setup has the fronts open up to 33% before the rears start to open. I think it is the way to go but it really changes the tune. The Sniper software comes with a check box that allows you to change over to progressive linkage but the check box doesn't seem to actually reprogram the fuel tables. So I'm guessing that this new feature is a "work in progress".

I think I can get my Sniper tuned to work with progressive linkage but we'll see. I started off by cutting the AE tables in half. I figured that since I'm only opening the throttle blades by half, the fuel should be cut in half. We'll see how that works........

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511627
06/22/18 08:21 AM
06/22/18 08:21 AM
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Milwaukee WI
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If the sniper is anything like the hp/ avenger/dominator, SUPPOSEDLY checking that box makes changes in the background that doesn’t require any changes to your maps.
Hp/ dominator check box also allows throttle percentage changes to coincide with injector cut in/ cut out.
I’ve personally used progresive linkage on a basically stock engine, worked real nice. I never switched from one version of linkage to another on the same engine to see if it does what it is designed to do though.


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Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511755
06/22/18 02:49 PM
06/22/18 02:49 PM
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I exchanged emails with Holley tech on this subject and they do not recommend using progressive linkage with the Sniper. It sounds to me like the software isn't really ready for users to check that box.

Checking the progressive linkage box on my Sniper didn't appear to make any changes to the underlying tables. I went thru the tune after changing to progressive linkage and I do not see any changes to the tables. I might have missed something somewhere but I can pull the before and after tunes up and look them over and nothing jumps out to me.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511763
06/22/18 02:59 PM
06/22/18 02:59 PM
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Tulsa OK
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The sniper must really rely on the TPS like maybe it has some Alpha N mixed into its program. If it was speed density then it wouldn't matter much other than accell enrichment strategy maybe.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511859
06/22/18 06:39 PM
06/22/18 06:39 PM
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I cut the AE tables by a bunch and the car seems to drive okay with the progressive linkage. On my setup the secondaries start to open at 33% on the TPS. You can adjust that number a little bit by changing the length of the link.

It cruises down the freeway at around 15% TPS so it doesn't really need the rear throttle blades most of the time. Only issue I can think of with progressive linkage is that the rear injectors aren't doing anything much of the time so they might have a problem long term. It would seem better if the rear injectors were firing at a very reduced rate below the 33% throttle position just to keep the fuel fresh and to keep everything working.

The guy I talked to at Holley strongly recommended against using progressive linkage. I'm going to drive it for awhile and then switch back to 1:1 just to get a good feel for both.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511951
06/22/18 11:08 PM
06/22/18 11:08 PM
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Sonora CA
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Progressive linkage is not ideal with TBI because the injectors go all the way around. The injectors feed all four ports equally. Closed throttle plates would not have the same atomization air flow.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511961
06/22/18 11:22 PM
06/22/18 11:22 PM
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Checking the box with a dominator/ hp/ avenger ECU effectively switches the ecu to staged injection if wired correctly. The primary(front) injectors will be on at all times. The rears will ramp in at the tps position selected in the software.
I found the factory setting on the avenger system to be pretty dang close to what it needed to be. I decreased the secondary value just a small amount to clean up a lean spot that you could see in logs, but not actually feel.
I have not dealt with a sniper system. Does it use an hp ecu or is it something else?


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Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2511989
06/23/18 12:10 AM
06/23/18 12:10 AM
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The Sniper has its own ECU that is mounted in the throttle body. It uses the same basic software as the HP systems which is why there is a check box for progressive linkage.

From what I can figure, when you check the box the rear injectors are turned off until the TPS % is hit. The problem is, the AE tables are not modified when you switch to progressive so now you get about 2x the fuel that you need below the cut in point. (30% TPS used to open up all four throttle blades 30% but not it only opens the front throttle blades 30%.)

I reduced the AE and that solved the bog off idle. So now it runs okay with progressive linkage but I wouldn't say it runs perfect. There are still some spikes in the AFR plot and off idle performance is a little iffy.

The issue that the Holley guy has is that on a street car the rear injectors will be turned off most of the time since you can do a lot of street driving without ever needing more than 30% throttle position. I think they are worried about the injector life if it just sits there and doesn't do anything.

Since progressive linkage is unsupported on the Sniper he basically told me I was on my own. He said they don't recommend it, it shouldn't be used and it is unsupported. But he also said it makes sense to have progressive throttle on cars like mine with a large engine so perhaps they'll add the feature (and support it) sometime down the road.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512076
06/23/18 10:22 AM
06/23/18 10:22 AM
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Ok didn’t know anything about the sniper system. My suspicion would be that they use the same software, but there are probably not configurable injector drivers in the control unit.
My advice to you is follow what Holley recommends.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: TRENDZ] #2512109
06/23/18 11:59 AM
06/23/18 11:59 AM
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Michigan
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Does this software have the capability to save multiple tunes stored in the ECU or is it one and done? Or can you import tunes from a laptop?

It would seem to me that the mapping between progressive and one to one would be completely different.


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512144
06/23/18 01:04 PM
06/23/18 01:04 PM
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You can save multiple tunes on the SD card that is in the hand held monitor. The SD card will also hold 100+ data logs depending on how big they are. The SD card pops out of the hand held and you can plug it into a desktop or laptop computer for tuning.

Most people talk about laptop tuning but you really don't need a laptop unless you are tuning at the track. I just pop the SD card out of the hand held and go in the house and use my desktop computer for tuning since the monitor is a lot bigger.

I'm not so sure the tunes need to be much different between progressive and 1:1 since it is all based on RPM and MAP. The only difference I've seen so far is the AE vs. TPS table since the TPS has to move a lot more with progressive.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512149
06/23/18 01:16 PM
06/23/18 01:16 PM
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Thanks for the info Andy, I've never played with that system to know. Interesting as I assumed that you would get to similar rpm numbers with different throttle body area combined with a different TPS position thus requiring a different tune. Please keep us informed on what you discover and thanks a lot for the data share!


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512442
06/24/18 02:09 AM
06/24/18 02:09 AM
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I hooked up the Holley digital dash. This is a pretty slick setup that has a bunch of built in dash configurations as well as the ability to build your own dashboard. I'm sure I'll be playing with this for a long time.........

DSC_2663 (Large).jpegDSC_2666 (Large).jpeg
Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512639
06/24/18 03:40 PM
06/24/18 03:40 PM
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I switched back to 1:1 linkage and took it for a drive. I'm not sure I can really tell the difference. Progressive linkage has a softer feel down low while 1:1 is a little more abrupt, but once you get past the tip in point they feel roughly the same.

I pulled onto the freeway to do a little testing and there was a Mercedes SLR McLaren in the next lane. I rolled into the throttle to see how the tune was working the SLR decided to see if he could take me. Pretty much a dead heat which isn't surprising. The SLR is 600 hp and 4000 lbs which is basically the same as my '65. He had a passenger in the car so he was probably 200 lbs heavier. Not a real race, we just rolled from 60 to 100 then I backed off to take the next exit. Too much traffic to really jump on it hard.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512666
06/24/18 05:38 PM
06/24/18 05:38 PM
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Sonora CA
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Police have been notified and are on their way.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512700
06/24/18 07:13 PM
06/24/18 07:13 PM
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Yeah I don't think it would take the police too long to find a '65 Dodge Coronet in the local area! Probably take all of 3 seconds to search the DMV files for '65 Coronets.

Not sure what the guy driving the McLaren thought when he saw the grille of a '65 Dodge gaining on him in the rear mirror. Might still be trying to figure it out.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2512709
06/24/18 07:33 PM
06/24/18 07:33 PM
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Sonora CA
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I once had an LS6 Vette pull up beside my 800 HP EFI HEMI 64 Dodge. I smoked that guy so bad I think he pulled off into a bar for a drink. People should know better with Mopars.

Re: Super Sniper install [Re: AndyF] #2513348
06/26/18 03:44 AM
06/26/18 03:44 AM
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Holley has released a whole boatload of Hyperspark products including some Mopar stuff: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/hyperspark_ignition/

I'm going to pick up the complete package for my car and do the conversion. This will allow me to "plug and play" an ignition system which is controlled by the Sniper.

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