Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2511587 - 06/21/18 11:26 PM Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI?
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
I am thinking of possibly doing a Dakota splice on the front of the 1958 Dodge Regent I just bought. It's a 1995 with a 318 and overdrive trans.
Wondering if anybody has done this swap and kept the factory EFI from the Dakota, ECU and all?
In no way shape or form do I want the Dakota dash/gauges!!! Or steering column!!!
Anybody done the swap with the EFI magnum engine??
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2511594 - 06/22/18 12:09 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
radar Offline
pro stock

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 1312
Loc: Philadelphia
There’s a guy on youtube that did at least one in a B or C series truck. His has the fugly dak dash somewhat tastefully integrated but I like old stuff better too unless it’s a full clean slate interior. I’m doing a dak swap now too but just the chassis. The 318 would be so nice with stock efi but I had a 3.9 yuck. I would test it as you disassemble- see what you can get away with unplugging to avoid hiding a bunch of dumb stuff somewhere just so it’ll run.

Maybe somebody around here knows from experience so you could avoid spending an hour unplugging stuff on a running donor? Good luck with it!

Top
#2511637 - 06/22/18 07:28 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: AZ
Steering column should not be a huge issue. Two options come to mind .

One would be an aftermarket unit like flaming river.

The other would be to shorten/modify the original column. I’ve done a few over the years on various builds. It’s pretty simple really, cut the column and find a bearing with the correct ID/OD to fit the column and shaft. Depending on the bearing it can either be held in place with set screws or an external snap ring. Shorten the inner shaft sufficiently that it still protrudes from the column and add the appropriate end (usually double D or splined) and weld or pin in place.

In either case you will need a way to secure the bottom end of the column as the original configuration secured the column to the steering gear. One way would be add a plate/clamp thru the floor plate you have to remove to get the original gear out. On my 57 Plymouth I’m going see if it’s feasible to build brackets to secure it to the bracing that clutch/brake pedals are attached to.


Does the Regent use the Dodge or Plymouth Dash? The Dash is bolt in by the way and they can directly interchange between the two. Personally I love the 57-8 Dodge dash and the only real issue I would see with using that (with aftermarket gauges) would be a way to drive the speedometer if the transmission you’re using isn’t set up for a cable drive (although there are a few option to get around that).

If it’s got the Plymouth dash, one thing I always wondered about was how much modification it would take to install and wire an 87 Lebron digital dash in the original 57-8 gauge housing.

lebaron digital dash by M Patterson, on Flickr

.
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

Top
#2511646 - 06/22/18 08:06 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: Mike P]
moparx Offline
Dreaming of implants

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 8873
Loc: north of coder
member poorboy is the dak swap expert. he should be able to answer the question. i know he uses everything he can from them, but i think he has done a swap using just the drivetrain and not the dash or steering column. he should chime in soon.
beer

Top
#2511728 - 06/22/18 11:30 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: radar]
Old Ray Offline
member

Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 123
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Anybody done the swap with the EFI magnum engine??


YES ...........(and NO,not finished yet) 1992 5.2

Originally Posted By radar
see what you can get away with unplugging to avoid hiding a bunch of dumb stuff somewhere just so it’ll run.


WHY ? Get it running and then remove things if your OCD requires it. Why make it more difficult?

I left all wiring / sensors / etc on the engine and removed the other end from the fender apron / firewall in probably a futile attempt to trick the computer. I am using the '92 dash gauges in my "56, ugly but plug and play, pictures available upon request (under protective custody) and the Dakota steering column, plug and play.




Edited by Old Ray (06/22/18 11:37 AM)

Top
#2511952 - 06/22/18 09:09 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
Mine is the Plymouth style dash. I want to leave the interior as stock looking as possible.. Dash for sure, column I can make an aftermarket column look 58 Dodge-ish I'm sure...
I guess I'll see what I can do!!!
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2511955 - 06/22/18 09:13 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
Dash is gonna be this for sure....


Attachments
58dash.jpg


_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2511985 - 06/22/18 10:01 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
poorboy Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6281
Loc: Freeport IL USA
Dakota's are easy! Full size trucks are a different story. If you want a simple wiring harness with the full size truck, I recommend a Hot Wire harness, not cheap, but they work with connecting 4 wires. If the idea of digging through a factory wiring harness makes you nervous, I strongly suggest the Hot Wire harness. www.hotwireauto.com

With the early (90 & 91) Dakota, the EFI part of the harness is pretty easy to separate from the rest of the wiring (start at the computer and separate all the wires connected to it). The EFI is really a pretty much stand alone set up, you just need to split it apart. The 92-96 is a bit more inner connected, but you should still be able to separate the EFI from the other stuff. You will need to keep all the engine sensors and their wiring. it looks like a mess, but they are all grouped together. You will keep most of the motor harness intact.

The EFI computer is not connected to the instrument cluster other then providing the info the dash can supply to the driver, and none of that is required. There is nothing in the instrument cluster the computer needs for the EFI to function. You do need to keep all the motor sensors, the computer uses them. So if you are using a different oil pressure gauge, you will need to keep the computer one, and add a "T" to connect what ever you need for your OP gauge. The same thing with the water temp sending unit, you need to keep the computer sender, then add what ever you need to run your temp gauge.

The only thing the computer needs from the steering column is the ignition power through an ignition switch (what ever ignition switch you want to use). Everything else is simply someplace the factory hung stuff for the driver convenience.

The computer needs brake light switch input, and the electronic speedo (after 90 or 91) gets its info from the speed sensor on the trans, the computer also uses that info. I believe the 90 was the last year for the cable speedo drive, and it has the electronic switch added to the cable connection on the trans. You will need an electronic speedo on anything newer then 90, but you don't have to use the factory unit.

What I discovered the hard way is that everything under the dash on 91 and newer is ran through a dash black box. You will need that black box if you want to retain any original Dakota switches (like cruise) or gauges.

If you have any other questions, let me know. Gene

Top
#2512113 - 06/23/18 10:05 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: poorboy]
Old Ray Offline
member

Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 123
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Thanks Gene, great info as usual. Does the dash black box have a "geek squad" name? Sorry, to lazy to look it up. If I have the complete original wiring harness I would guess that I have it. Thanks.

Top
#2512171 - 06/23/18 12:09 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: poorboy]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By poorboy
Dakota's are easy! Full size trucks are a different story. If you want a simple wiring harness with the full size truck, I recommend a Hot Wire harness, not cheap, but they work with connecting 4 wires. If the idea of digging through a factory wiring harness makes you nervous, I strongly suggest the Hot Wire harness. www.hotwireauto.com

With the early (90 & 91) Dakota, the EFI part of the harness is pretty easy to separate from the rest of the wiring (start at the computer and separate all the wires connected to it). The EFI is really a pretty much stand alone set up, you just need to split it apart. The 92-96 is a bit more inner connected, but you should still be able to separate the EFI from the other stuff. You will need to keep all the engine sensors and their wiring. it looks like a mess, but they are all grouped together. You will keep most of the motor harness intact.

The EFI computer is not connected to the instrument cluster other then providing the info the dash can supply to the driver, and none of that is required. There is nothing in the instrument cluster the computer needs for the EFI to function. You do need to keep all the motor sensors, the computer uses them. So if you are using a different oil pressure gauge, you will need to keep the computer one, and add a "T" to connect what ever you need for your OP gauge. The same thing with the water temp sending unit, you need to keep the computer sender, then add what ever you need to run your temp gauge.

The only thing the computer needs from the steering column is the ignition power through an ignition switch (what ever ignition switch you want to use). Everything else is simply someplace the factory hung stuff for the driver convenience.

The computer needs brake light switch input, and the electronic speedo (after 90 or 91) gets its info from the speed sensor on the trans, the computer also uses that info. I believe the 90 was the last year for the cable speedo drive, and it has the electronic switch added to the cable connection on the trans. You will need an electronic speedo on anything newer then 90, but you don't have to use the factory unit.

What I discovered the hard way is that everything under the dash on 91 and newer is ran through a dash black box. You will need that black box if you want to retain any original Dakota switches (like cruise) or gauges.

If you have any other questions, let me know. Gene


Here come my questions!!! lol
Why does the computer need oil pressure for the EFI?
I don't want an electronic speedo, that might be a deal breaker unless I can figure a way to get around it.
The 46RH is an A518 no? We just used one in a 1969 B body and a buddy's 39 Fargo 360 truck, cable kickdown and pressure switches and/or overdrive button, but aside from that the trans was stand alone. Just the 2 or 3 pin switch mattered. I think trans we can sidestep.
What is the speedo input for?
The black box is SEPARATE from the ECU I assume? The needed input sensors I can just leave, if I leave the sensors hooked up can I just power up the ECU and the pump and see where the connected sensors take me?
Why would an engine management system need input from the brake pedal switch?
I don't mind if I need to run an aftermarket ECU and sensors if worse comes to worse.
I guess I will dig in and see where things go....

Thanks Gene
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2512174 - 06/23/18 12:11 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
I have 1995 Dakota regular cab short box 2wd 5.2 auto in excellent shape I can chop up.... it's still 100% together and drivable at the time. I have the 5x4.5 hubs and rotors already for it.
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2512425 - 06/23/18 11:06 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
poorboy Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 6281
Loc: Freeport IL USA
Originally Posted By CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Originally Posted By poorboy
Dakota's are easy! Full size trucks are a different story. If you want a simple wiring harness with the full size truck, I recommend a Hot Wire harness, not cheap, but they work with connecting 4 wires. If the idea of digging through a factory wiring harness makes you nervous, I strongly suggest the Hot Wire harness. www.hotwireauto.com

With the early (90 & 91) Dakota, the EFI part of the harness is pretty easy to separate from the rest of the wiring (start at the computer and separate all the wires connected to it). The EFI is really a pretty much stand alone set up, you just need to split it apart. The 92-96 is a bit more inner connected, but you should still be able to separate the EFI from the other stuff. You will need to keep all the engine sensors and their wiring. it looks like a mess, but they are all grouped together. You will keep most of the motor harness intact.

The EFI computer is not connected to the instrument cluster other then providing the info the dash can supply to the driver, and none of that is required. There is nothing in the instrument cluster the computer needs for the EFI to function. You do need to keep all the motor sensors, the computer uses them. So if you are using a different oil pressure gauge, you will need to keep the computer one, and add a "T" to connect what ever you need for your OP gauge. The same thing with the water temp sending unit, you need to keep the computer sender, then add what ever you need to run your temp gauge.

The only thing the computer needs from the steering column is the ignition power through an ignition switch (what ever ignition switch you want to use). Everything else is simply someplace the factory hung stuff for the driver convenience.

The computer needs brake light switch input, and the electronic speedo (after 90 or 91) gets its info from the speed sensor on the trans, the computer also uses that info. I believe the 90 was the last year for the cable speedo drive, and it has the electronic switch added to the cable connection on the trans. You will need an electronic speedo on anything newer then 90, but you don't have to use the factory unit.

What I discovered the hard way is that everything under the dash on 91 and newer is ran through a dash black box. You will need that black box if you want to retain any original Dakota switches (like cruise) or gauges.

If you have any other questions, let me know. Gene


Here come my questions!!! lol
Why does the computer need oil pressure for the EFI?
I don't want an electronic speedo, that might be a deal breaker unless I can figure a way to get around it.
The 46RH is an A518 no? We just used one in a 1969 B body and a buddy's 39 Fargo 360 truck, cable kickdown and pressure switches and/or overdrive button, but aside from that the trans was stand alone. Just the 2 or 3 pin switch mattered. I think trans we can sidestep.
What is the speedo input for?
The black box is SEPARATE from the ECU I assume? The needed input sensors I can just leave, if I leave the sensors hooked up can I just power up the ECU and the pump and see where the connected sensors take me?
Why would an engine management system need input from the brake pedal switch?
I don't mind if I need to run an aftermarket ECU and sensors if worse comes to worse.
I guess I will dig in and see where things go....

Thanks Gene


Oil pressure switch: If I Remember right, the auto shutdown relay needs to detect oil pressure or it will cut the fuel pump power.

Speedo: The modern auto transmissions do not have the cable drive mechanism in the trans tail stock. They were set up for the electronic speed sensor, not a cable attachment. I'm not absolutely sure which year that happened, but I believe the change over occurred between the 90 and the 91 model year for the Dakota, but it could have been 91 & 92 model year. My 93 only has the electronic speedo sensor. I think the year of the trans is what determines the mechanical cable or the electronic speed sensor speedo output.

The input from the speedo and the input from the brake switch may only be for cruise control operation, wires from both feed into the ECU.

The dash black box is not connected to the ECU. I believe it is the buss bar system that converts all the under dash switches and components from off/on to digital. All the Mopars I've seen after about 93 use this system. Gene

Top
#2512456 - 06/24/18 02:47 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
Awesome. Thanks Gene!
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2512481 - 06/24/18 07:41 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: AZ
Nice looking gauge cluster. Being used to seeing Plymouth embossed on the face plate the Dodge name there looks a bit different.

You might want to take a look under the donor truck. I seem to recall that 95 was the last year the 46RH/518s used a cable speedometer drive.


Edited by Mike P (06/26/18 09:24 AM)
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

Top
#2513220 - 06/25/18 07:15 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: Mike P]
flyman Offline
member

Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 150
Loc: mn
I put the efi system out of a 1994 dak in my 57 truck. Simple to run with the correct mods I have the wiring diagram that I got off a member on here. I first had it hooked up with a cable driven speedo but changed over to electronic so I could hook up the cruze. The trans will accept either drive.I have put about 11000 miles on it trouble free. No more carbs for me!! Let me know if you want the diagram.

Top
#2513310 - 06/25/18 10:51 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: flyman]
Old Ray Offline
member

Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 123
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted By flyman
Let me know if you want the diagram.


Thank you for posting. i would like a copy of the wiring diagram if possible, thank you. up

books1@telus.net


Edited by Old Ray (06/26/18 10:55 AM)

Top
#2513338 - 06/26/18 12:53 AM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: flyman]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 16205
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By flyman
I put the efi system out of a 1994 dak in my 57 truck. Simple to run with the correct mods I have the wiring diagram that I got off a member on here. I first had it hooked up with a cable driven speedo but changed over to electronic so I could hook up the cruze. The trans will accept either drive.I have put about 11000 miles on it trouble free. No more carbs for me!! Let me know if you want the diagram.



Yes please!!! crazymoparguy@hotmail.com
Fairly straightforward or...?
Thanks
_________________________
CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Top
#2515987 - 07/01/18 04:51 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
flyman Offline
member

Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 150
Loc: mn






Keep these PINs per a 94 dakota service manual

PINS
1 map sensor
2 ECT sensor
3 Battery feed
4 sensor return
6 5v supply
7 8v supply
9 Ignition feed
10 not needed with 727
11 Ground
12 Ground
13 Inj Driver4
14 Inj Driver3
15 Inj Driver2
16 Inj Driver1
17 Inj Driver7
18 Inj Driver8
19 Ign Coil Driver
20 Gen Feild Driver
21 Air Temp Sensor
22 TP Sensor
24 Reference Pickup
25 Data link
27 AC compressor (if keeping AC)
29 Brake sense (if keeping cruise)
30 P/N switch
32 MIL
33 VSS (if keeping dakota cruise) we got rid of)
34 AC WOT relay (if keeping ac- we got rid of)
35 EGR Solenoid (we deleted EGR)
37 Trans OD light (we got rid of)
38 Inj Driver5
39 IAC
40 IAC
41 Heated O2 Sensor
43 Tach (we kept)
44 CMP sensor
45 Data llink
47 VSS pick up (we kept for now) KEEP 47-50, 53 keep if using dakota cruise
48 VSS set/coast (we got rid of)
49 VSS on/off (we got rid of)
50 VSS resume/accel
51 ASD relay and fuel pump relay driver
52 Evap purge (we got rid of)
53 VSS vent (we got rid of)
54 EMCC solenoid (we got rid of)
55 Trans OD solenoid (we got rid of) (keep if using 42rh or 46rh)
57 ASD bat supply
58 Inj Driver6
59 IAC
60 IAC
This is what I used to make mine work.

And pin#3 direct battery fused at 30 amps spliced to feed pins 30 of ASD and Pin 30 of fuel pump relay
Pin 9 IGN switched voltage spliced to feed 12v side of ASD and fuel pump relay.
Pin 11 and 12 grounds.
Pin 29 to brake switch
Pin 30 to park neutral switch
Pin 51 Switched ground wire to Pin 86 on ASD and fuel pump relay
Pin 57 pin on 87 on ASD relay
I also had a 1994 Dakota Service manual and a good understanding of
electronics. Hope this helps I think you may still find this in the tech archives also

Top
#2516091 - 07/01/18 08:28 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
Old Ray Offline
member

Registered: 09/20/16
Posts: 123
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Thank you for posting. up

Depending on a persons requirements, .........it looks like there is not a real big amount that can be deleted. confused

Top
#2517143 - 07/03/18 05:35 PM Re: Dakota clip- who has done and retained the EFI? [Re: Old Ray]
flyman Offline
member

Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 150
Loc: mn
let me know if I can help in any way.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Advertisement
Forum Stats
25,383 Registered Members
32 Forums
190,973 Topics
2,227,771 Posts

Most users ever online: 1,424 @ 06/20/18 07:18 PM
Moparts Newest Topics
Aug 17th - WI - Mopar Show Under the Lights
by moparts
07/20/18 08:07 PM
Anybody ever use miller spot welders?
by 71sat440
07/20/18 07:50 PM
Forgive me father, for I have sinned.........
by SKR8PN
07/20/18 07:17 PM
First time front suspension issues...
by ksat
07/20/18 07:12 PM