Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510711
06/20/18 10:55 AM
06/20/18 10:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454 Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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This is good news, we need to thank Bob Book and Mason Baxter for pushing this
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510732
06/20/18 11:48 AM
06/20/18 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Great news, but I'm kinda surprised. I figured there'd be more of a market for aftermarket big blocks.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2510741
06/20/18 11:59 AM
06/20/18 11:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Great news, but I'm kinda surprised. I figured there'd be more of a market for aftermarket big blocks. I do not know Bob Book but these guys need blocks BAD. They agressively aproached Dart after giving Dart the info on how many Mopar guys need blocks. Between A Bodies only, Moparts, and Facebook they showed Dart how many guys are interested. I hope it happenes but if it does happen I hope the Mopar guys come through and do there part. It sounds like Dart wants to start out with two blocks that will be popular with MOST of the engines that we are now building.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510742
06/20/18 12:01 PM
06/20/18 12:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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Mason Baxter has confirmed DART likes money and attention.
This is not an oath, or a contract. He put his toe in the water to see how much interest there is. If he doesn't get what his accountant tells him (regardless of how accurate it is) will support the R&D (how many thousand units at what price yields how much profit) he'll walk away. Questions that matter: "Will deposits and pre-pays guarantee delivery at the stated price?" "Will this money be in escrow until delivery?".
Way too many of these announcements are a re-play of "Lucy and the football".
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510748
06/20/18 12:04 PM
06/20/18 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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John, I agree the SB guys have a real problem getting ANY decent block to build a good engine with. Glad Dart has stepped up! I just thought the BB market would be bigger. Considering the only 2 options BB guys have are Indy or KB, but both being aluminum and expensive. Granted that's more than the SB guys have now. I'm assuming Dart will be making these in cast iron and probably (hopefully) under $4k.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: Porter67]
#2510753
06/20/18 12:17 PM
06/20/18 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
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Like I said I don't know Bob Book but the words out of his mouth are, the block he needs right now WON'T be one of the two made bucause of the custom block that he needs. But he sounds like a smart man that knows once in production a tweek here and a tweek there it COULD be made down the road.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510818
06/20/18 02:13 PM
06/20/18 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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I hope this actually happens. I am really surprised with the pending sale of Dart it is happening at all, or even is announced before the new ownership takes over. They will be keeping Maskin I hear but in the end it is a dollars and cents thing.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510822
06/20/18 02:16 PM
06/20/18 02:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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If the block doesn't cost $999.99 or less, come absolutely perfect for your particular combo and have every bell and whistle I doubt he'll sell 10 blocks to the general public.
The Chrysler people are the cheapest people out there. They can run 10's one stock block and that's good enough.
If they get made, and made for more than 1 production run I'd be stunned.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: madscientist]
#2510856
06/20/18 03:24 PM
06/20/18 03:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,556 New Smyrna Beach FL
scottb
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,556
New Smyrna Beach FL
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If the block doesn't cost $999.99 or less, come absolutely perfect for your particular combo and have every bell and whistle I doubt he'll sell 10 blocks to the general public.
The Chrysler people are the cheapest people out there. They can run 10's one stock block and that's good enough.
If they get made, and made for more than 1 production run I'd be stunned. I for one have no problem paying for a good block so were not all cheap a$$ like you think
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510889
06/20/18 04:23 PM
06/20/18 04:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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Reasonable (for the buyer): you like the price. Reasonable (for the seller): completely pays off all R&D time, molds, destructive testing, CNC programs, ads, distributor network requirements, etc. and gives a good ROI (25% annual?). Even this assumes no failures, delays, strikes, embargoes, recalls. My dad used to say "Want to sell light bulbs? The first one is $10 million, the 10 millionth one is $1.".
If they can only sell 10 - they won't (doesn't begin to pay for the start-up costs). If they can only sell 100 they will be $6,000 - and they won't (no buyers). If they sell 1,000 they will be $1,999 - and they won't (900 will still be on the shelf in a year).
See the problem? There isn't enough volume to permit a low price, and no buyers at all if it's not.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510890
06/20/18 04:27 PM
06/20/18 04:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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Commits to it? You think that their principals and stockholders will let them chase $50,000 R&D down a rathole because they had a press conference? If it won't make money (2 years and no product, costs = projection X 2, only 50 deposits) they eat the losses, and call it off.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510924
06/20/18 05:44 PM
06/20/18 05:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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I think you guys may be surprised how many of these could sell.
Since the R3 well has basically dried up, class racers and those who want to make more HP than a stock block provides have not had many options. Is it going to blow anyone away from a volume perspective no, but if its reasonable there is a market.
If they're $1999 I'll put my deposit down tomorrow.
Bravo to Book and Mason for getting us this far.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: fbs63]
#2510967
06/20/18 06:38 PM
06/20/18 06:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I don't think it's that Mopar people are cheap. I think they are sick of paying double what other makes cost and being treated like the manufacturer is doing you a favor. If they offer the block at a REASONABLE price point, they will sell. No doubt it will be more than a SBC because the volume will be less. You are NEVER going to pay SBC prices for Chrysler stuff. Poly laid out the math in fairly clear numbers. A Chrysler block costs about the same to found and machine as a Chevy. Since there are 40:1 Chevy over Chrysler that's an in sue right there. My bet is at 2k if they require anything but assembly guys are going to [censored]. Can't tell you how many guys bitched at me because the X and R blocks came rough bored and I charged extra to get the block to hone size. Virtually everyone. Want to know how many Chevy guys bitched about rough bored blocks???? A big fat ZERO. Katie bar the door if it needs a line hone...and it SHOULD and if it has to be decked (and it SHOULD) the Chrysler guys will [censored] for YEARS. Fact. I've lived through it. God knows I want this to happen. Look how bad it was for Ritter to get one up and running.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2510970
06/20/18 06:44 PM
06/20/18 06:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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They need to have one be legal and approved for Stock/Super Stock.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: madscientist]
#2510986
06/20/18 07:14 PM
06/20/18 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
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I don't think it's that Mopar people are cheap. I think they are sick of paying double what other makes cost and being treated like the manufacturer is doing you a favor. If they offer the block at a REASONABLE price point, they will sell. No doubt it will be more than a SBC because the volume will be less. You are NEVER going to pay SBC prices for Chrysler stuff. Poly laid out the math in fairly clear numbers. A Chrysler block costs about the same to found and machine as a Chevy. Since there are 40:1 Chevy over Chrysler that's an in sue right there. My bet is at 2k if they require anything but assembly guys are going to [censored]. Can't tell you how many guys bitched at me because the X and R blocks came rough bored and I charged extra to get the block to hone size. Virtually everyone. Want to know how many Chevy guys bitched about rough bored blocks???? A big fat ZERO. Katie bar the door if it needs a line hone...and it SHOULD and if it has to be decked (and it SHOULD) the Chrysler guys will [censored] for YEARS. Fact. I've lived through it. God knows I want this to happen. Look how bad it was for Ritter to get one up and running. Priblem with Ritter though is he didnt bring a viable product to market. He brought a product that immediately had a bad name. Bad news travels way faster than good news
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2511014
06/20/18 08:04 PM
06/20/18 08:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892 Florida
Locomotion
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
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They need to have one be legal and approved for Stock/Super Stock. Speaking of class racing, how much more trouble/cost might there be to offer 360 crank journal size blocks once the 340 size is ready? (For Stock classes.)
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511017
06/20/18 08:06 PM
06/20/18 08:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656 Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
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I wouldn't expect 2k for a block. I figure Dart will have at least $1 million from design to release. $3500 a block means about 285 blocks sold to break even.
Dart will show us how to design, manufacture, and release a quality product. If only Ritter would have done as Dart will, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Craig Scholl CJD Automotive, LLC Jacksonville, FL www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com904-400-1802 "I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: CJD AUTOMOTIVE]
#2511025
06/20/18 08:25 PM
06/20/18 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,801
S.E. Michigan
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I wouldn't expect 2k for a block. I figure Dart will have at least $1 million from design to release. $3500 a block means about 285 blocks sold to break even.
This seems the most reasonable and likely scenario posted so far.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511027
06/20/18 08:27 PM
06/20/18 08:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
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If Dart makes it I have ZERO doubt it will be a good piece. Also would not expect then to be under $3K
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511031
06/20/18 08:40 PM
06/20/18 08:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
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Hummmmm
4.220 bore 4.25 stroke 475 cubes
Heck i could race it at night, use it to help bailing hay in the daytime
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: B3422W5]
#2511037
06/20/18 08:52 PM
06/20/18 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I don't think it's that Mopar people are cheap. I think they are sick of paying double what other makes cost and being treated like the manufacturer is doing you a favor. If they offer the block at a REASONABLE price point, they will sell. No doubt it will be more than a SBC because the volume will be less. You are NEVER going to pay SBC prices for Chrysler stuff. Poly laid out the math in fairly clear numbers. A Chrysler block costs about the same to found and machine as a Chevy. Since there are 40:1 Chevy over Chrysler that's an in sue right there. My bet is at 2k if they require anything but assembly guys are going to [censored]. Can't tell you how many guys bitched at me because the X and R blocks came rough bored and I charged extra to get the block to hone size. Virtually everyone. Want to know how many Chevy guys bitched about rough bored blocks???? A big fat ZERO. Katie bar the door if it needs a line hone...and it SHOULD and if it has to be decked (and it SHOULD) the Chrysler guys will [censored] for YEARS. Fact. I've lived through it. God knows I want this to happen. Look how bad it was for Ritter to get one up and running. Priblem with Ritter though is he didnt bring a viable product to market. He brought a product that immediately had a bad name. Bad news travels way faster than good news I get it. I knew Kent when he was running the Ritter-Webber record holding Comp car. IIRC the car went 7.77 at 167 or something like that, which for 2000-2001 was impressive. Ritter didn't have the backing that he needed. So yes, he did release the block too early. What I don't get is how do guys not know what's coming? Evidently, Ritter has it cleaned up and no body is beating the door down to get them. I don't recall the issues with the first blocks but like I said, Chrysler guys get exactly what they deserve. Very few are willing to pay, be the first, work through the kinks and do some testing. I've been around way too long to say otherwise. If this deal does happen, the only thing to keep it going is the down under Pro Stock guys. Now, if you want to rehash the Pro Stock truck debacle we can do that. Because that was the beginning of the end of N/A racing in NHRA. Killing the truck class was not only stupid it was short sighted. Or...maybe this is what NHRA really wanted. Killing PST certainly hastened the downfall of PS.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: madscientist]
#2511051
06/20/18 09:20 PM
06/20/18 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,130 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,130
Melbourne , Australia
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I don't think many people have looked at the cost of a Dart block, most of the Big and Little M, or Iron Eagle blocks are closer to the $3K mark, if not over. World blocks aren't any different. I don't imagine they'll be a SHP style block, which is less expensive.
Alan Jones
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: Triple Threat]
#2511059
06/20/18 09:44 PM
06/20/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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I think you guys may be surprised how many of these could sell.
Since the R3 well has basically dried up, class racers and those who want to make more HP than a stock block provides have not had many options. Is it going to blow anyone away from a volume perspective no, but if its reasonable there is a market.
If they're $1999 I'll put my deposit down tomorrow.
Bravo to Book and Mason for getting us this far. What about at $3,000? $5,000?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: LA360]
#2511065
06/20/18 09:54 PM
06/20/18 09:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397 Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
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I'm stepping out on a flimsy limb but my Ritter block will be coming home next week and QMP said it machined up real nice. I know all the guys will say "it's not tested, how many problems?, how much more did you spend, ect... All I can say is it is a real nice piece, I stepped up to the plate and took a swing because I wanted to make some serious steam in a small block. Kent was up front and very honest,that being said he sold 7 that's right 7 new ones that I know of. I haven't heard a bad word yet on one of the 7 new blocks. Under 3k and I'm not sure what the machine bill will be but you have to have any new block machined. Bored to 4.185" Decked to 9.580" Line honed Extra was I had the cam tunnel opened up to 60mm roller
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511159
06/21/18 01:10 AM
06/21/18 01:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
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If this block actually happens I will probably get one.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511236
06/21/18 10:16 AM
06/21/18 10:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I'd just hope for a price under $4k. The Dart Big M and Little M blocks are $3k. Those are NICE blocks. Been running a big inch Little M in the Camaro for over 10 years.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 71Pan]
#2511247
06/21/18 10:39 AM
06/21/18 10:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656 Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
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I have been needing another block for years. I continue to look for R3's, but don't hold much hope. Ritter block? Nope. Anyone who would knowingly release blocks with known issues (this assumes he had a few machined to check Quality before releasing), or releases without doing any Quality Control, leaving it to the customers to figure out the problems, will never have my business. I'll wait for Dart.
Craig Scholl CJD Automotive, LLC Jacksonville, FL www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com904-400-1802 "I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: Triple Threat]
#2511249
06/21/18 10:43 AM
06/21/18 10:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890 Spahn Ranch
RMCHRGR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,890
Spahn Ranch
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If they're $1999 I'll put my deposit down tomorrow. Me three.
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: Locomotion]
#2511269
06/21/18 12:04 PM
06/21/18 12:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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They need to have one be legal and approved for Stock/Super Stock. Speaking of class racing, how much more trouble/cost might there be to offer 360 crank journal size blocks once the 340 size is ready? (For Stock classes.) Myron, You might be surprised (I was) the blocks that NHRA has approved for Stock Eliminator: Chrysler Small Block Mopar P5153478AB Ritter Racing Products XR-1 Ritter Racing Products XR-2 I don't know about the Ritter Blocks but the Mopar Block is a 340. The approval just says small block, no reference to engine size. I am pretty sure in Super Stock they don't care about bearing size, don't know for sure on Stock. You would just have to check with NHRA to be sure. Bill
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: madscientist]
#2511336
06/21/18 02:45 PM
06/21/18 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
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I don't think it's that Mopar people are cheap. I think they are sick of paying double what other makes cost and being treated like the manufacturer is doing you a favor. If they offer the block at a REASONABLE price point, they will sell. No doubt it will be more than a SBC because the volume will be less. You are NEVER going to pay SBC prices for Chrysler stuff. Poly laid out the math in fairly clear numbers. A Chrysler block costs about the same to found and machine as a Chevy. Since there are 40:1 Chevy over Chrysler that's an in sue right there. My bet is at 2k if they require anything but assembly guys are going to [censored]. Can't tell you how many guys bitched at me because the X and R blocks came rough bored and I charged extra to get the block to hone size. Virtually everyone. Want to know how many Chevy guys bitched about rough bored blocks???? A big fat ZERO. Katie bar the door if it needs a line hone...and it SHOULD and if it has to be decked (and it SHOULD) the Chrysler guys will [censored] for YEARS. Fact. I've lived through it. God knows I want this to happen. Look how bad it was for Ritter to get one up and running. If polys numbers are right and they can get em to $1999 they will have no problem selling 1000, the first two option he listed are right. Also I don't get the whole chevy volume thing, sure there may be a demand for 40 times more blocks but there are 40 blocks available RIGHT NOW and none for the SBM so one decent manufacturer should have no issue selling enough and it would be white noise to come up with another SBC block at this point. As far as the rough bore complaints go, you dont' hear the chevy guys complain about it because they CAN buy a finished block while the mopar guys had NO CHOICE to buy a finished or not block, all the chevy guys that want a finished block buy a finished block, the mopar guys who want a finished block buy an overpriced unfinished block and spend more money finishing it and waiting on the local machine shop pergatory to decide when its getting done. Sure charge us 10% 20% more but don't charge us double for an inferior product then call us tight wads for complaining or flat out not being able to afford it.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2511353
06/21/18 03:24 PM
06/21/18 03:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I don't think it's that Mopar people are cheap. I think they are sick of paying double what other makes cost and being treated like the manufacturer is doing you a favor. If they offer the block at a REASONABLE price point, they will sell. No doubt it will be more than a SBC because the volume will be less. You are NEVER going to pay SBC prices for Chrysler stuff. Poly laid out the math in fairly clear numbers. A Chrysler block costs about the same to found and machine as a Chevy. Since there are 40:1 Chevy over Chrysler that's an in sue right there. My bet is at 2k if they require anything but assembly guys are going to [censored]. Can't tell you how many guys bitched at me because the X and R blocks came rough bored and I charged extra to get the block to hone size. Virtually everyone. Want to know how many Chevy guys bitched about rough bored blocks???? A big fat ZERO. Katie bar the door if it needs a line hone...and it SHOULD and if it has to be decked (and it SHOULD) the Chrysler guys will [censored] for YEARS. Fact. I've lived through it. God knows I want this to happen. Look how bad it was for Ritter to get one up and running. If polys numbers are right and they can get em to $1999 they will have no problem selling 1000, the first two option he listed are right. Also I don't get the whole chevy volume thing, sure there may be a demand for 40 times more blocks but there are 40 blocks available RIGHT NOW and none for the SBM so one decent manufacturer should have no issue selling enough and it would be white noise to come up with another SBC block at this point. As far as the rough bore complaints go, you dont' hear the chevy guys complain about it because they CAN buy a finished block while the mopar guys had NO CHOICE to buy a finished or not block, all the chevy guys that want a finished block buy a finished block, the mopar guys who want a finished block buy an overpriced unfinished block and spend more money finishing it and waiting on the local machine shop pergatory to decide when its getting done. Sure charge us 10% 20% more but don't charge us double for an inferior product then call us tight wads for complaining or flat out not being able to afford it. I never, ever had a Chevy guy buy a finished bore block. No engine builder with his head out of his ass would do that. You think I'm going to out my name on something I didn't have total control over? Fat chance.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: scottb]
#2511523
06/21/18 10:43 PM
06/21/18 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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The new edelbrock head flows right up there with a W8 W9 heads so the heads are not a problem i would bet edelbrock is glad this block is coming out to support there new heads This kind of news makes me want to build a smallblock again.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: MattW]
#2511534
06/21/18 11:07 PM
06/21/18 11:07 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,182 aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,182
aZLiViN
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IMO the problem with a new block is what do you put on top of it? W7 8 9s are going to cost you some serious $$$$$. Other than the W9, which are running dry, you need to find some cores. GOOD LUCK!! Now I'm not saying the W series won't make power, they do but sorry guys ancient tech! Matt Ebrock Victor would fit this bill. I’m sure they’d love to see it happen. It also appears to me there are PLENTY of 8’s/9’s out there for sale. I’m also in belief that a person looking at this block is looking at spending some “serious” $$$.
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: J_BODY]
#2511617
06/22/18 04:43 AM
06/22/18 04:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,130 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,130
Melbourne , Australia
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A friend is currently putting two Victor headed engines together at the moment for customers, they're not going to be huge power things, as the customer doesn't need that. They are the 59* version, but you can see there is a lot of material in them. With blocks readily available, more heads will become available
Alan Jones
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: ss/la]
#2511713
06/22/18 12:48 PM
06/22/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,496
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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stock per nhra rules is supposed to have the correct journal size, super stock is allowed any size journal, that being said yours may vary I looked in the rulebook more and I agree: BLUEPRINTING Permitted per NHRA Specifications available from NHRA Technical Services Department headquarters. Stock, factory OEM components (unless otherwise specified) must be retained and remain unaltered (i.e., connecting rods, pushrods, crankshaft, etc.).
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: mopar dave]
#2511808
06/22/18 04:35 PM
06/22/18 04:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,408
Fulton County, PA
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I would bet i could do it for between $10,000-$14,000 complete. If I could get in the 425" NA and 2+HP/cu.in. range reliably, this would interest me. I know how to do that now, but I like LAs.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2512191
06/23/18 02:45 PM
06/23/18 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,504 DFW
mr_340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,504
DFW
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stock per nhra rules is supposed to have the correct journal size, super stock is allowed any size journal, that being said yours may vary I looked in the rulebook more and I agree: BLUEPRINTING Permitted per NHRA Specifications available from NHRA Technical Services Department headquarters. Stock, factory OEM components (unless otherwise specified) must be retained and remain unaltered (i.e., connecting rods, pushrods, crankshaft, etc.). Per the NHRA Accepted products list under connecting rods: 360 Main Journal 2.81 Main Housing 3.003 Superceded 360 Block Main Journal 2.5 Main Housing 2.693
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: DART AGREES TO MAKING SB MOPAR BLOCKS
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2512197
06/23/18 03:01 PM
06/23/18 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,701
Portage,michigan
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I would bet i could do it for between $10,000-$14,000 complete. If I could get in the 425" NA and 2+HP/cu.in. range reliably, this would interest me. I know how to do that now, but I like LAs. My buddy scottb, who has posted in this thread has a 417 W8 motor that will easily make more than 800 horsepower that i think he built for within the above price range. Its coming to life here in the next several days. Hopefully he sees this and comments on cost.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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