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#2470493 - 03/22/18 03:20 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: Frankenduster]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By Frankenduster
What kind of braking force improvement can you expect with this as compared to a 2.75" single piston caliper with a 12" Cordoba rotor ?


I don't know but I suppose there is a reason the Mopar engineers didn't use the Cordoba rotors on the Viper.


WEll, yeah....
I understand that weight is a big part of it, right?
I was not criticizing at all, I was wondering about the math of it. I did not see the size of the rotor or the piston configuration of the caliper so...
Thanks though.


I'm just copying what the factory engineers did. They put these parts on the Viper so I'm putting them on my car. The Cordoba setup is 30 years old and was designed for a car with a top speed of 120 mph.

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#2470553 - 03/22/18 04:34 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
Sweet5ltr Offline
member

Registered: 04/02/12
Posts: 52
Loc: Florida
I run Cass's Stage 4 brake kit currently.

In terms of total piston area, I believe the current calipers he offers in this kit would be similar to the 4-piston GEN II Viper calipers. The calipers Cass provides use an 03+ GEN III Viper brake pad already.

So, what am I missing here other than the (possibly) lighter, two-piece rotors? Just the ability to use the authentic Viper calipers?




Edited by Sweet5ltr (03/22/18 04:48 PM)
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#2470615 - 03/22/18 06:00 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: Sweet5ltr]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2300
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr
I run Cass's Stage 4 brake kit currently.

In terms of total piston area, I believe the current calipers he offers in this kit would be similar to the 4-piston GEN II Viper calipers. The calipers Cass provides use an 03+ GEN III Viper brake pad already.

So, what am I missing here other than the (possibly) lighter, two-piece rotors? Just the ability to use the authentic Viper calipers?

I kind of agree. The Viper caliper would be a lot nicer though since its made by Brembo.

I have Cass's Stage 4 kit also but I have Carbotech pad 592 which is for a 2001-2002 Gen2 Viper and it works great! Hauls 3400 lbs. down from 140 mph with no problems.
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#2470650 - 03/22/18 06:27 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
dangina Offline
pro stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 1418
Loc: Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Hey andy the viper caliper bracket looks the same as the one I bought from you years ago that fit the 13" Mercedes rotors - are these the same or is the new caliper bracket different? Whats the weight savings on going from the heavy 1 piece rotor to the new 2 piece?

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#2470711 - 03/22/18 08:20 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2300
Loc: NorCal
Got a quote from Cass. Whoa these rotors are pricey haha!
Andy can you please post up the 1 piece vs. 2 piece rotor weight? Trying to justify cost to weight, need vs. want ratio haha!

Thanks!
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#2470721 - 03/22/18 08:55 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: dangina]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By dangina
Hey andy the viper caliper bracket looks the same as the one I bought from you years ago that fit the 13" Mercedes rotors - are these the same or is the new caliper bracket different? Whats the weight savings on going from the heavy 1 piece rotor to the new 2 piece?


The offset on the hubs is different between the kits. The kit I used to make pushed the wheel surface out so that Mustang rims would bolt on. Cass has his wheel surface in the stock location. So no, the caliper brackets will not interchange.

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#2470723 - 03/22/18 08:56 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: RylisPro]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By RylisPro
Got a quote from Cass. Whoa these rotors are pricey haha!
Andy can you please post up the 1 piece vs. 2 piece rotor weight? Trying to justify cost to weight, need vs. want ratio haha!

Thanks!


Two piece rotors are 4 lbs lighter per side. So 8 lbs of unsprung weight off the front end.

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#2470724 - 03/22/18 08:58 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: Sweet5ltr]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr
I run Cass's Stage 4 brake kit currently.

In terms of total piston area, I believe the current calipers he offers in this kit would be similar to the 4-piston GEN II Viper calipers. The calipers Cass provides use an 03+ GEN III Viper brake pad already.

So, what am I missing here other than the (possibly) lighter, two-piece rotors? Just the ability to use the authentic Viper calipers?




Cass will have to answer that. From what I understand there might be a supply issue getting the knockoff caliper. The OEM design should be around for a long time since Vipers will be around for a long time. Downside is cost of course.

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#2470812 - 03/23/18 12:58 AM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2300
Loc: NorCal
Originally Posted By AndyF
Two piece rotors are 4 lbs lighter per side. So 8 lbs of unsprung weight off the front end.

Thanks so much Andy! Unfortunately the 2 piece rotors and shipping to me would cost nearly $120 bucks per pound so the price is hard to justify as Cass's Stage 4 kit works great just heavy. I also have a spare set of his 1 piece Mercedes rotors already. I would rather spend that money on more track days.

If someone were to start from scratch I would definitely recommend your kit with Cass's 2 peice slotted only rotors!
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#2470914 - 03/23/18 11:01 AM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
jcc Offline
No politics

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 16973
Loc: Trumussia
Viper calipers are a radial mount?
What is the ctr to to ctr stud spacing and/or is it common to other caliper options?
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#2471184 - 03/23/18 10:26 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: jcc]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By jcc
Viper calipers are a radial mount?
What is the ctr to to ctr stud spacing and/or is it common to other caliper options?


All of the high end calipers are radial mount. Take a look at any Porsche or Ferrari and you'll see radial mount Brembo calipers. The Corvette was the only super fast car that was bucking the trend but I think GM engineers finally saw the light on the track cars.

Center to center on the Viper caliper is 130 mm. That is a fairly common measurement but I wouldn't bet that all Brembo calipers use the same dimension.

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#2471185 - 03/23/18 10:29 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
All of the current Chrysler "super cars" use what appears to be radial mount Brembo calipers but I don't have access to the tech info so I'm not sure. But just a casual look at the calipers on the SRT, Hellcat, Demon and Viper cars look like Brembo calipers to me. So there is probably some sort of corporate edict that says once the power to weight ratio gets greater than X then the car has to use Brembo calipers.

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#2471214 - 03/24/18 12:08 AM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 15200
Loc: Granite Bay CA
What do you guys mean by "Radial Mount" ?

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#2471306 - 03/24/18 10:33 AM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: Frankenduster]
jcc Offline
No politics

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 16973
Loc: Trumussia
The mounting adapter bracket that bolts normally to the spindle and connects/bolts to the caliper one of two ways with two bolts/studs, perpendicular, or parallel to the rotor, ie radially, the later allows additionally, small adjustment of tuning the caliper operating radius. A pic is worth a thousand words, the pic in this thread unfortunately is not overly clear, hence my original question. As mentioned, radial mount is the current preferred method.


Edited by jcc (03/24/18 10:34 AM)
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#2471346 - 03/24/18 12:10 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24043
Loc: Oregon
Here is a radial mount caliper bracket. This one is from Baer for their race caliper. They use the same bracket for all of the rotor sizes and just use a spacer to adjust the caliper height. So you can have a 13 inch, 14 inch or 15 inch rotor all with the same bracket. Just use a 1/2 inch or 1 inch spacer to adjust the caliper height.


Attachments
7-30 (Large).jpg



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#2471407 - 03/24/18 03:12 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
Frankenduster Offline
Moparts proctologist

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 15200
Loc: Granite Bay CA
Thank you for that. That is a great idea, allowing for future upgrades.

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#2476747 - 04/03/18 11:31 AM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
Mopar Mitch Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 1038
Loc: NW Chicago suburban area
Andy -- T/Anks for posting the new option for us.

I'm at a point now in updating to the 'Cordoba 11.75 diameter, using my pin-type original calipers... just have to order the 11.75 rotors and bearings (spindle updated to later a-body). Just still wondering what could be better than that... while still keeping the allowable usage of the factory 15x7 rally rims. I tried that rim onto a Viper caliper setup (thanks to a local cool Mopar guy having the setup on his awesome '70 Charger!) with the 11.75 rotor and the inside of the rim hit the Viper caliper (would possibly clear by using a ~1/4" spacer for the rim-to-hub... not something I want to do). Also, I have SuperLight brand 15X8 mini-light rims for street/hwy-cruising and they have barely any inside diameter clearance against the top of the Viper caliper (especially the inside tape weights -- they touch the caliper during wheel rotation. I really wanted to go with the Viper setup and 11.75 rotors (and I have a set of the correct spindles aside), but the interference issues cautioned me away. 16" rims are not a problem which I've checked and confirmed. I'll probably just use the cast iron pin-type calipers and be done with it.
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#2478404 - 04/06/18 03:14 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
TC@HP2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 4834
Loc: Pikes Peak Country
Rim clearance with Viper calipers can really vary from rim to rim. The older factory stuff being the highest risk for interference. Newer stuff does seem to have some additional space built into them these days. I've had trouble with OEM era rallyes, magnums, and steelies. I've had not trouble with most new purpose built race wheels, a couple of billet styles, and even cast aluminum that is within 25 years old, all in 15" diameters.

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#2507742 - 06/12/18 09:58 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: RylisPro]
Skeptic Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4218
Loc: The Pale Blue Dot
Any updates?

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#2509455 - 06/16/18 08:40 PM Re: New Viper brake kit [Re: AndyF]
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 214
Loc: Gilroy,CA.
anything available for a mustang 2 spindle?
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