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Should’ve gotten a small block and oil question #2505064
06/06/18 02:10 AM
06/06/18 02:10 AM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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Stole an hours today to play with truck. Two months in, first time I had a chance to turn a wrench on the 77 440 truck.

Got the oil changed and found the 5 quart jug and extra quart I had wasnt enough. I thought it took 6. Didn’t make stick. Scrounged around and did have another quart or quart and a half in another jug. Barely on stick. So just how much do these things hold? I’ve had cars with aftermarket pans not hold this much. Looks to be factory tube and stick.

Went to change the valve cover gaskets. My goodness. Booster needs to come off? I got under there and loosened it up most I could without risking it falling and breaking lines. Didn’t have time to find a way to crib it. Thinking I might try a rachet strap and a block of wood next time I get a chance. Guess I could bleed the brakes but I really really don’t want to put that time in. I had to quit and get back to real life as soon as the party started.

Just shocked an old truck is that tight. I got this because it should be “easy” to work on! Got to thinking back and I might not have encountered this because so far only one car I can think of had power brakes.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505113
06/06/18 10:08 AM
06/06/18 10:08 AM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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should be about 6 qrts. 7 with large filter/after start up & drain down

that's what mine takes with a oil/filter change with a large filter.

I had to replace the dip tube on mine, 90* inverted flare fitting in side of pan sump.

so I used a inverted flare bulk tube and cut to fit. welded the tab on tube then bolted to manifold bolt for support

the stick you have could be incorrect also. never know?

I would drain pan, change filter, add 5 qrts, run engine, wait 15 mins and check level.

if not on the stick I would trim tube a little at a time till I get a "add 1 qrt" reading on stick. then add 1 qrt, that should be spot on with a filter change and 6 qrt pan next time.

or get a longer stick and mark it or adjust tube length.

I mocked my pan on the bench and with my windage tray I run it with 5 qrts/filter to keep it 1 inch below tray. then adjusted my stick/tube to get "add 1 qrt" reading. use 6 qrts and filter it reads full.


what booster is on it? small BB booster or bigger flat pancake booster?

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505145
06/06/18 11:30 AM
06/06/18 11:30 AM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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I’d have to take pic of booster. Not sure what it is considered. I’d say not a flat one.

Sounds like I don’t need to worry about adding any more oil. It has the shorty 068 wix on it due to an idler pulley right by it.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505218
06/06/18 01:59 PM
06/06/18 01:59 PM
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larrymopar360 Offline
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If you're sure you have the stock pan, I'd do like scratchin wrote. I'd drain it real well, letting it sit for long time on a bit of an angle if you can, then close it up and add what the Factory Service Manual states it should have. Then if you don't have a reading on your dipstick, someone along the way must have put the wrong one in??? Or if it does read on stick, score it in proper place.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505336
06/06/18 06:39 PM
06/06/18 06:39 PM
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https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNz...kFPdFAweHlBbzR3

Here is a link to pics and one has an underhood shot where you can see the booster. These later 440s look to me to have taller valve covers than older stuff.

It’s up on the bottom of the stick now. Unfortunately I just had some extra in a gallon jug so I don’t really know how much went in. I wonder if this issue has caused the oil leaks? It’s about where it was on the stick before the change. Seems like a lot of oil.

I really don’t understand this not being the Oem tube and stick. It has a tab that matches up to a bolt. Might be the wrong stick? Might look on rockauto and see if they sell one or have a length.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505344
06/06/18 06:55 PM
06/06/18 06:55 PM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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Remembered I had the owners manual in my desk. It shows 5 quarts for all engines, plus 1 for a filter change. I thought it might’ve been 6 plus the system when I was adding yesterday.

I could be over 7 now, just at bottom of stick. I bet this caused the leaks. You’d be at probably 9 to get to full. Wow.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505516
06/07/18 10:19 AM
06/07/18 10:19 AM
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yes, over fill it with or with out a tray will cause it to leak no matter what you do to seal gaskets. windage is going to displace the oil and pack the under side of the oil rings so they cant keep the oil off the cyl walls, then heat/carbon build up packs the ring lands and the rings stick in the grooves. no oil control at that point. so it starts with forceful blow-by till it is a oil burner and smoking...then the oil in cyls fouls the intake charge and slows the burn to make it ping and carbon up the cyls ect..ect..

sounds like you have the tall "penthouse" VC on it. have a look at cab bushing to see if they are sagging. I have used a jack to raise the body slightly to get clearance on booster and VC. backed the cab bolt off some and used a 2' 4x4 next to the cab support to push up with the jack.

a BB truck does take a different approach to working on it than a SB truck but not by much.

I am a hack that strips them down to bare bones, mix match all yrs & pieces cars/trucks to build my daily drivers and weekend warriors.

older the stuff is the more simple it was to work with.

like my 86 BB 4x4 chassis I am building, I am going with a 78-NY 440 but using a dist/carb/intake/PTK linkage from a 67-polara. 77-78 BB truck non a/c pulleys/belts/hoses/ps pump/booster.

very simple to work on and service...just bigger. well worth the grin factor when you mash the throttle.

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505630
06/07/18 03:57 PM
06/07/18 03:57 PM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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Have to agree here. Even this setup feels a ton better than 318 trucks.

Just wish I had more time to play with it. Have to get the major leaks fixed and now this tube deal gets thrown in the mix.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505665
06/07/18 06:08 PM
06/07/18 06:08 PM
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ric3xrt Offline
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The booster is correct, it's hard to remove the valve covers on these trucks with Air condition, the line out of the compressor gets in the way, trick is to twist the valve cover up the carb and pull forward.

Both my Midnite Express and the Green 78 Warlock read 2 quarts low when filled, the Midnight my dad had back to Reedmans a few times, a few dipstick tubes and indicator sticks later it still was off.
My Black 74 was also off when I bought it, but after some bending and persuasion it's fine now.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: larrymopar360] #2505666
06/07/18 06:09 PM
06/07/18 06:09 PM
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ric3xrt Offline
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Originally Posted By larrymopar360
If you're sure you have the stock pan, I'd do like scratchin wrote. I'd drain it real well, letting it sit for long time on a bit of an angle if you can, then close it up and add what the Factory Service Manual states it should have. Then if you don't have a reading on your dipstick, someone along the way must have put the wrong one in??? Or if it does read on stick, score it in proper place.



For what it's worth...I agree 10000000%

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505669
06/07/18 06:15 PM
06/07/18 06:15 PM
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I often talk to mine and let her know she is on my mind while apart.

nice looking truck. yes, that is the correct small booster for a BB truck, may want to look at lifting the cab corner a little if VC "just will not come out" it should but it is a pain.

does it have any exhaust leaks at manifolds?

mannys are good for cooking the vc so superformance has the best and you can use some RV style exhaust gaskets that have a heat shield built into them to help save VC from cooking.

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505804
06/08/18 01:40 AM
06/08/18 01:40 AM
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I think that the Dodge trucks have a shorter front end than the Chevy or Ford of the same era. My 84 Chevy had a whole lot of room underhood.
I've had 3 of these trucks....A 74 Camper 9000, a 75 Power Wagon and a 78 Trail Duster. The last 2 were factory 440 trucks. The 74 was a 360 truck. I built a 440 for it and had it complete when I swapped it in. I needed to change the valve cover gaskets one time and was PISSED when I could not get the left one off. I used STUDS when I built the engine in an attempt to avoid leaks.

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2505807
06/08/18 01:49 AM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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Tried twisting and it was a no go. Thought loosening the booster would be plenty enough. Super frustrated to burn that valuable garage time and twisting my back up on,y to be just a fraction short. If I had a helper to hold I would’ve probably risked the lines. Making a deadman rig of some kind can be done, the cab jacking is a good idea. Great actually.

I can’t say the manifolds leak. Too much oil drips on them to say. Doesn’t sound it. Haven’t had truck long enough to figure stuff like that out. At this rate it’s looking like 2027 before I get around to that.


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Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2506966
06/11/18 10:37 AM
06/11/18 10:37 AM
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the lines are tuffer than one thinks, I have had a vac booster/mc flopping around on stuff swapping cabs/chassis. you just want to lean it over and support/tie it off to keep it from bending kinking the lines. they are stiff and will stand up some what to lean them over. handle with care not to kink or sharp bends to them.

jerk it off the wall and strap it off to a hood hinge. get the gasket rail degreased with brake clean and a rag.. brake clean the oil build up along manifolds tops.

don't need much to flex the cab up on the corner for that fraction needed. 2x4 and floor jack/catch the lip on lower firewall under booster or at cab mount. slightly push up. not lifting the truck just flexing the cab a little

make sure to peen the VC bolt holes flat with the new gaskets.

IMHO, copper rtv on the exhaust & VC is best for leaks. brake clean and thin coat on both side of gaskets, let it cure 24 hrs before use. does not burn from exhaust heat.

going by the book hrs, that was the only way I could get it done in that amount of shop time.

seems like extra work BUT 5 extra bolts under the dash to R&R booster and 15 mins on VC prep/install.

what I cant stand is working the a/c comp and brackets just to change t-chain/wp/valley pan end rail.

WP housing is bad enough with the 1 bolt behind the heater nipple but all that a/c comp stuff has to go on my junk.

Re: Should’ve got a small block and oil question [Re: SomeCarGuy] #2507380
06/12/18 01:45 AM
06/12/18 01:45 AM
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SomeCarGuy Offline OP
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Thanks. Forgot about the copper. Been years since I used any. Probably a good idea.

Wp bolt is a pita. Few I got lucky and nipple isn’t rusted on. Mostly have been rough deal.


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