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"Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
#250519
03/11/09 11:53 AM
03/11/09 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Ansonia, CT
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Some guys expressed interest in following along with other racer's engine builds so I figured I would document what I am building for '09. A 444 cube stock appearing small block......  Click the link........ http://supercarraces.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=271&p=1886#p1886I'm going to start bolting it together tonight and will keep adding to it.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250520
03/11/09 01:26 PM
03/11/09 01:26 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Personally, I would like to see it, but the price is always the issue with the small block mopars. I have been wanting one for a very long time, but mopar doesn't support the small block guys. You can shoot me, but for some time now, you can buy a 454 Cheepie small block crate motor that's 600hp on pump gas. Even comes with a dominator. How do you get one of those in a mopar for only $13k? Its gonna run you over $20k, and that's the reason so many build a big block instead. To get a 600hp pump gas mopar, it has to be a $20k small block or a mild big block, not much in between. Heck you still can't get a 4500 flanged intake for a small block mopar, you have to weld it and mill it yourself! http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/101011.htmhttp://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+310209&D=310209I like the build you have going in the link, what did the crank run you? Also, my very mild 340 Cuda ran 12.0's all day at 112-114mph. I was surprised your 408 only went 11.90's, but maybe there's something I missed in your time slip.
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: F1Scamp]
#250528
03/11/09 03:36 PM
03/11/09 03:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,131
Motown USA
Wile1coyote
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 11,131
Motown USA
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Quote:
Quote:
There are already mid 11 second FAST small block single 4 cars out there, and that's faster than a good number of big blocks currently running.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's not like a small block guy is out to try and take down big blocks & Hemis in FAST, it's about seeing what you can do to make a stock appearing combo (any combo) look stock and run as fast as possible.
Exacatly. It's all in fun, to see what you can get your car to run. Good people, Good times.
Agreed, I will run a small block in F.A.S.T. and I am never ever going to win, it's ok just being there makes it worth the effort. What a lot of people do not realize is that the ONLY person you are ever really competing against on the strip is yourself.
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: CJK440]
#250531
03/11/09 07:04 PM
03/11/09 07:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Still, makes you wonder what that engine would do in a 2700lb 63-66 a-body? 
At the end of last season my Duster scaled at 2950 without me @ Atco.
that's what I'd put it in...what early valiants came w/ 273 super commando's?
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: Dave Watt]
#250534
03/11/09 10:06 PM
03/11/09 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Ansonia, CT
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Yeah, mine has the semi-circular cutout on the rearmost section. Of course it is permanently open.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#250536
03/11/09 11:57 PM
03/11/09 11:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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Quote:
There are already mid 11 second FAST small block single 4 cars out there, and that's faster than a good number of big blocks currently running.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's not like a small block guy is out to try and take down big blocks & Hemis in FAST, it's about seeing what you can do to make a stock appearing combo (any combo) look stock and run as fast as possible.
Why couldnt you run a Mr. Norms car in this class, one of his supercharged cars or say a demon with a 6 pack?
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#250538
03/12/09 05:37 AM
03/12/09 05:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,075
rochester,new york
plumebody
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,075
rochester,new york
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Quote:
Quote:
There are already mid 11 second FAST small block single 4 cars out there, and that's faster than a good number of big blocks currently running.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's not like a small block guy is out to try and take down big blocks & Hemis in FAST, it's about seeing what you can do to make a stock appearing combo (any combo) look stock and run as fast as possible.
Why couldnt you run a Mr. Norms car in this class, one of his supercharged cars or say a demon with a 6 pack?
Maybe because they weren't "production" cars. They were considered a dealer add on. 
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: CJK440]
#250541
03/12/09 08:44 AM
03/12/09 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
N of Detroit
DaveDudek
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
N of Detroit
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 Very nice Chris, i can read stuff like that build all day long. Better hurry up the season is coming soon. What`s you goal for the year? (with good air and good track)
Dave Dudek 1st Factory Stock legal car in the 10`s!!! [/b] FAST & Factory Stock Rules: www.fastraces.org FAST 69 Hemi RR 9.98@139
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: CJK440]
#250544
03/12/09 02:47 PM
03/12/09 02:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,131
Motown USA
Wile1coyote
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,131
Motown USA
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Quote:
Quote:
but if it were a factory option, it would be OK? hmm.....how 'bout a '63 studebaker lark with a supercharged 289 R3?
I think there is one in the works right now.
I'm pretty sure there is one in Pure Stock PSMCDR. There are several Studes that regualrly compete there. Would make a good platform for FAST 4 sure.
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250546
03/21/09 12:44 PM
03/21/09 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Update. I got a quite a bit more done and plan to drop the sucker in today and fire it tomorrow.  I'm going thru more than just the engine details too.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#250549
03/21/09 04:29 PM
03/21/09 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
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Back when I was involved with FAST as the Tech Director I had a 72 Duster that I was planning a 433" (4.1 x 4.1) 340 TQ/904 that I thought had the capabilities to go inthe 10's (this was about a year before Wayne hit Stride with the Vette (the next year in fact) and I think I was trying to convince Dave into switching to an Auto). I thought with enough port work to the intake and the Head (I've worked plenty of X's and J's) an A body could dip into the 10's with the right air. the issue for me was with more stroke and a few FAST legal traction tricks it could work provided we could overcome the small 14" E-70 footprint of the FAST legal tire. I knew a hidden stutter box could kill the low end until we got rolling but keeping the tire planted while big torque rolled in was always the quandry. Plus the fact that at the time I was the Tech guy so I had to put my plans on the shelf and remain unbiased. I thought a 433" motor with a 6.25" rod, a 2.055 or 5/16 stem 2.08 intake and a moon pie slug would be the best way to squeeze the last bit of power up top where the wedge head would have a hard time keeping up with the hemis and canted valve motors. The cam is tricky,  you gotta ET by maximizing the torque in the middle 'cause you can't use it all off the line and your big end is limited by the intake and the shorty-short rod ratio will start to lay off the cylinder pressure at high piston speeds. I've been following you and your car very closely, I believe we met before you went to the 416
Last edited by Streetwize; 03/21/09 04:30 PM.
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: Streetwize]
#250550
03/21/09 06:58 PM
03/21/09 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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I think we met a while back in Columbus before I was building a car. I had a Curious Yellow 71 cuda at the time.
I contemplated a few rides, one being an A12 car and the other an off brand, and of course a 71-72 Duster. This car was my buddies and I bought it off of him.
I think its the most competitive small block mopar.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: 69B3GT]
#250557
03/25/09 09:57 PM
03/25/09 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
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Yeah, i remember the Cuda I'm not sure how big you can hog the manifold to but there'sa LOT of POWER there if you can get it fed properly. I'd be interested in the Cam Dwayne picked...we're almost 'telapathic' in our selections most of the time...
Last edited by Streetwize; 03/25/09 09:58 PM.
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#250559
03/26/09 09:18 AM
03/26/09 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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I took the car for a ride last night and it really caught me off guard. Night and day over the 408. I'm looking forward to making some passes next Saturday.
When I drove the car with this motor and the 4 speed the throttle was like an on/off burnout switch. With the auto it definately will help hook the car up.
As for the manifold, I did some hand porting & gasket matching but its tough to get in there.
I do have a second manifold that I mounted in a bridgeport and milled away all the runners underneath. The idea is to fabricate a steel single plane runner system on the lower level of the dual plan and braze it in place and contour with epoxy. Granted, its less than ideal and with no testing equipment other than track time after the swap its really shooting from the hip but think I can eliminate some 90 degree bends in the stock dual plane and definately remove some pig iron weight too.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: HPMike]
#250561
03/27/09 09:46 AM
03/27/09 09:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Thats a good question Mike and brings up a sore subject. The shop that originally did the block work checked it and cleared it for a .040" overbore, I thought .040" was safe but they said they would make sure. However just short of completion I ended up hastily pulled the block out and sent it to another shop due to some "disagreements" and never got the actual numbers. I had a couple of snags when I was first building this thing 3 years ago. Hindsight is 20/20. 
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250562
03/27/09 10:37 AM
03/27/09 10:37 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
Thats a good question Mike and brings up a sore subject. The shop that originally did the block work checked it and cleared it for a .040" overbore, I thought .040" was safe but they said they would make sure. However just short of completion I ended up hastily pulled the block out and sent it to another shop due to some "disagreements" and never got the actual numbers.
I had a couple of snags when I was first building this thing 3 years ago. Hindsight is 20/20.
Keep up the good work.. With the featherlight weight of that car, it might get interesting.
MB
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: HPMike]
#250563
03/27/09 01:38 PM
03/27/09 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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We'll see in a week.
I have a feeling I am going to get a rude awakening in the form of chassis setup as I never had enough power to require chassis tweaks. Previously I'd launch off idle and floor it WOT all the way down the track, got me in the 11's. But I think I'll have to roll onto the throttle and hope 1-2 doesn't hit too hard.
I'm going to bring along some ballast just in case but quite honestly I'm going to be looking for mph on Saturday and work on ET in the future.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#250565
03/27/09 08:53 PM
03/27/09 08:53 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
I have no idea how you will get that car to hook with all that torque. Especially in a light car like that I would think it is just going want to spin.
While it does take some practice and a friendly track, they actually hook a bit better than you think. G70 bias ply FAST car.
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250566
03/27/09 09:26 PM
03/27/09 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
FuryUs
master
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master
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Posts: 4,558
Montana
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Quote:
I took the car for a ride last night and it really caught me off guard. Night and day over the 408. I'm looking forward to making some passes next Saturday.
When I drove the car with this motor and the 4 speed the throttle was like an on/off burnout switch. With the auto it definately will help hook the car up.
As for the manifold, I did some hand porting & gasket matching but its tough to get in there.
I do have a second manifold that I mounted in a bridgeport and milled away all the runners underneath. The idea is to fabricate a steel single plane runner system on the lower level of the dual plan and braze it in place and contour with epoxy. Granted, its less than ideal and with no testing equipment other than track time after the swap its really shooting from the hip but think I can eliminate some 90 degree bends in the stock dual plane and definately remove some pig iron weight too.
Any chance you'll share pics of this manifold with the bottom milled out?
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: FuryUs]
#250567
03/28/09 06:29 AM
03/28/09 06:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Sure, when I get to it I will, but its more of a long term project right now. Bigger fish to fry at the moment.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250568
04/04/09 09:45 PM
04/04/09 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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UPDATE: Ran the sucker at E-town today. It was 1/8th only but still a good event to get used to launching with the extra cubes. I went to the track with the Thermoquad unchanged from the pumpgas 408 and with the timing backed down to be safe. First pass of the day blew the tires off and ran a "meh" 7.78 @ 94mph. It took a few passes to get used to the extra power off the line and to make a few timing adjustments but whittled the ET down and qualified 3rd out of 14 cars with a 7.56. I ended up moving thru the quick 8, winning my first race and a much faster car red lit in the semi's and I ultimately lost to Ed Cook. Best pass of the day.... 7.42 @ 96.17. Looks like a 7.42 is equivalent to an 11.60 or so in the 1/4. Not too shabby for the first time out with no dyno tuning.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#250571
04/06/09 08:40 AM
04/06/09 08:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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No ballast other than the spare in the trunk. I put 3.73 gears in it over the winter and wished I still had the 4.10's for the 1/8th.
I'm really excited to see how it does on a full pass.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#250573
04/06/09 01:32 PM
04/06/09 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Scott, I'm interested in selling it, it's not sold.
I still plan to see how fast it will go until somebody steps up and takes it.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Building a "bigger than a big block small block"
[Re: CJK440]
#250574
04/06/09 05:17 PM
04/06/09 05:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
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Posts: 5,160
Texas
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The first half of the track is where the tires are hurting your ET. The back half should be a little better.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: "Bigger than a big block small block" F.A.S.T./SUPERCAR
[Re: CJK440]
#250577
04/26/09 08:08 AM
04/26/09 08:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
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Well the build paid off and it ran the number I originally built it to run. I clicked off an 11.49 @ 118mph.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Can't wait to see the rest of the progress.
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