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My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... #2497724
05/18/18 11:01 PM
05/18/18 11:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
Howdy!

I have a 54 3/4 ton dodge pickup. It’s currently running a 230 flathead with a t-5 that will be coming out once my driveline is ready. It already has a modern rear (which will eventually be a dana or something), four wheel disc brakes, fresh suspension, and a nice aluminum radiator. The frame is in great shape.

I had big block envy forever and finally found a complete 400 carb to pan with wiring harness, accessory brackets, and a 727 for under $500. I couldn’t help myself! I’m waiting to hear how the magnaflux went and if good I’m ordering a rotating assembly. The plan is just north of mild- unported stealth heads, lots of torque, small flat tappet. I was even thinking iron exhaust manifolds until I felt how heavy they are- whoah! If they fit great I might still run them but headers would be easy to fabricate or modify for clearance.

Right now I’m researching a few things and collecting parts. I should have a longblock in a month or two. The flathead will come out this summer then the fun begins. I was flirting with the dakota frame or front clip idea but the chassis is sound and straight axles are cool. I might jump if I find a cheap straight 70s mopar with a blown 383 in it that I can afford or a local 1st gen dak for the right price but for now the plan is to put the mill in the 54 chassis.

In this planning/parts collecting phase I’m currently thinking about a few different things.

-who makes a decent oil filter relocation kit? Or should I try to make one? Seems like a part that should be common?

-anybody who did one of these have an oil pan suggestion? I plan to run my motor as low as practical and move back the firewall/trans tunnel as neccesary. If I can run a mech fan with a good shroud I will but I’m ok with an electric one if that helps with where I will need to hang the motor.

-my steering box is sloppy. Does anybody know who can rebuild the old gemmer steering box near philadelphia? Or have power or manual box suggestions to work with the straight axle? I figure I’ll probably need universals to get around the motor and I don’t want to keep the metal spear aimed at my sternum anyway. I don’t know a lot about steering setups beyond maintaining stock stuff but I’m not afraid to fabricate and I’d rather use oem parts than $$$ streetrod billet.

Thanks for reading and please any comments are welcome. I’d love if anybody who’s done this would be willing to help me avoid the stuff they had to do twice!

Radar

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2497816
05/19/18 11:02 AM
05/19/18 11:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
member poorboy is the expert on those trucks, so hopefully, he will chime in and give you solid direction on your truck. it will certainly be a runner with your chosen drivetrain ! up
beer

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498353
05/20/18 07:40 PM
05/20/18 07:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,399
Dandridge TN
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Dabee Offline
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Dandridge TN
Here is a link to the tread on the 55 pick up build I did 5 Year’s ago. Hope it helps. Since then I have done a 46 Ford, 56 Dodge, 52 Dodge, 50 Dodge (all trucks) and a 47 Chrysler Windsor all using either a Dakota front clip or a full Dak frame. Send me a back channel if you want more info. I’ll be glade to send my cell number if you want to talk.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1314022/1.html

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498373
05/20/18 08:53 PM
05/20/18 08:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
I saw that thread in my searches- great truck and the pics are super helpful. There is a guy on youtube that does one in great detail.

I am actively looking for a 1st gen Dak to butcher but the combo of local (since I don’t have a trailer), sub $1000, and 5 lug wheels is making slim pickins.

I put a lot of work into making my truck 4 wheel power disc and it has a greah suspension with new shackles and kingpins. The steering is still vague even after an alignment but that should be fixable especially since the swap will probably require universal joints in the column linkage.

Anyway, the link and the offer are greatly appreciated!

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498476
05/21/18 01:02 AM
05/21/18 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,486
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
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Freeport IL USA
If your looking for a Dakota, a 91-96 6 bolt cane easily be converted to a 5 bolt buy swapping the rotors. Since you already have the rear converted to disc brakes, I would plan a front clip rather than a full frame swap. Both frames should match up pretty well (I would make the clip change behind the Dakota trans mount), and you can adjust your ride height by how you locate the Dakota frame onto the 55 frame.

If you want to keep your 55 frame (since its been converted to full disc brakes), I would plan on scrapping the original steering box because the steering column is part of the 55 steering box.

Dodge used the beam axle under the trucks through 1971, and they even installed big blocks from about 67 or 68. What that means is that you can probably adapt a later steering box, (all were manual boxes), steering column, and maybe even motor & trans mounts to your frame by using the late 60s steering box, column, and big block truck mounts. I don't know how much the truck frames changed between 55 and 68, but I suspect if you were capable of converting what you have to 4 wheel disc brakes, this shouldn't be outside of your abilities.

Philadelphia is a long way from where I am, but I have a 70 frame here we can pull the good manual box off of. Unfortunately this truck was a slant 6 , so the mounts won't help. Gene

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498779
05/21/18 09:15 PM
05/21/18 09:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
So I kept up on craig’s and scored the donor truck I was looking for. It’s a 1989 regular cab dakota- 124” wheelbase, 2wd with a bad fuel pump, dead battery, and a dented front bumper. The gaps are all still good so it should be close to square. I have sentimental attachment to the 50s chassis but modern shackles and newer steel would be an improvement. I have some a body XHD leafs I could throw on with the grand cherokee rear but I see a dana in my future.

It’s going to need 10” or so cut out of the frame (123.9 dak to 114 c-series longbed) but first I’m going to strip it to a frame and put the motor and trans where they need to be. It seems like a couple or few inches back and as low as possible with a stock rear sump truck pan is the recipe. The pics for the discontinued engine swap conversion mounts from schumacher also look like basically that much setback built into a stock mount. It’ll be a balancing & measuring act deciding if I can or want to run a mechanical fan.

The bed install and frame shortening will have to happen based off the cab position but the driveline sure would be easy to reach with no bed installed. The wood bed would be cool a little higher or even over the hidden Dak bed floor for strength?

I’ll have to figure out case by case which systems to scrap and which to keep but the rack and pinion already has a nice multinpiece shaft with universal joints. The power steering pump will need to be adapted but that’s not such a chore. The mini alternator would look pretty trick and the 12v HVAC box and compressor might be a killer upgrade!

I am thinking about what it would take to get it sitting ‘car height’ possibly using some of the Dak firewall and cab floor (bracing up the cab and welding in an angle iron flange or something to set the height before joining the floor and cab). I hafta watch engine height and hood clearance too but I think 4-5” ride height is attainable. I can have six or eight hundred pounds of dudes sit on the chassis to calculate ride height drop hahah

Now I’m rambling, but I’m excited it will be a lot of work but much more highway worthy and comfortable.

Thanks for reading and any comments or ideas or wisdom earned with experience are very welcome!

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498781
05/21/18 09:17 PM
05/21/18 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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Philadelphia
And I had resigned myself to the idea that cheap 5 lug Dakotas were too rare and I’d wait forever to find one ha!

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: radar] #2498847
05/21/18 11:33 PM
05/21/18 11:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,486
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
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Freeport IL USA
Congrats on finding a Dakota donor.

My best advice is to pull the front sheet metal off the Dakota and park it side by side to the C, line up the front wheels. That will enable you to determine where everything will have to be moved to. When you start moving stuff, its best if you can make the firewalls line up as well. You will probably have to cut a notch into the "C" firewall for engine clearance. It makes doing anything to the motor easier if the notch in the firewall clears the entire motor. The firewall and floor pan are easier to adapt then relocating things on the motor. Any mid 50s Dodge cab I've worked with I had to notch the firewall. Depending on how deep your notch will be, you may be able to use the Dakota floor pan and firewall, but it may not be worth the effort.

The 39 Dodge pickup I'm currently building with a Dakota chassis has the motor & trans shifted back about 6". I just added a 1/4" thick plate under the motor mounts and moved them back. I added extensions (angle iron) to where the trans crossmember bolts to the frame to support the crossmember.

What I have found is that when you move a motor & trans back on the frame, the effect of weight on the front suspension has little effect. The V6 front springs can support a lot of motor when the motor is moved back.

The right end of the Dakota HVAC box is the recirculation part of the box. It can be cut off, and moved out towards the seat, (cut off with a cut off wheel, add a little flat plastic riveted in place, and a bit of sealer and its good to go) that will shorten the box about 6" in width. When you get to that point, I believe I have pictures of how I did my coupe, that should apply to your truck.

The Dakota steel box floor is wider then the step side box, except where the wheel wells are located. The Dakota wheel wells are less then 48" apart, so a filler panel (about 2" wide and the length of the wheel well) would need to be added to both sides at the wheel well. The Dakota rear frame kicks up over the gas tank, so the box floor is high. Your step side box may have pretty short sides, if you add wood on top of the steel, the floor will be even higher.

The last words of wisdom (for now): If you have the space, don't scrap anything until you are driving the new creation. Otherwise, you will scrap something that was just what you needed. The remains of a Dakota carcass can be an infinite supply of odds and ends that can far exceed the scrap value. Gene

Re: My C-series is getting a 512! Got some questions... [Re: poorboy] #2498878
05/22/18 12:48 AM
05/22/18 12:48 AM
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Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline OP
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Philadelphia
Thanks Gene!

I really appreciate the time you took to respond and every point is super helpful. I agree about a clean donor vehicle having everything from free sheetmetal and bracket metal to seatbelts to slick oem wiring harness connectors.







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