Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2498746
05/21/18 07:34 PM
05/21/18 07:34 PM
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hemi71x
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Well, the 68 Hemi Dart's and Barracuda's did use the 4 1/2" inch bolt pattern, and 1/2" inch wheel studs, so you just might have rotors-hubs, from those cars. On the back side of the hubs are there the letters K/H cast in the hub? Where did you get them, anyway? An old racers stash of parts?
And, no 72 A Body car, ever got a 4 1/2" bolt pattern.
Someone just brought this to my attention. Possibly, you have Ford Mustang rotors, they are 4 1/2" inch bolt pattern. But i would need to see an official pair of early Mustang rotors and hubs, to compare.
I doubt a Ford two piece, rotor, hub, is machined to work on a Mopar spindle, (knuckle) or it would have been done long ago. Even though there is a vendor that re-machines one piece rotors, with 4 1/2" inch bolt pattern to work on a Mopar spindle.
Last edited by hemi71x; 05/22/18 10:44 AM.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499021
05/22/18 12:51 PM
05/22/18 12:51 PM
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hemi71x
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I haven't got a clue if Kelsey Hayes ever produced a rotor-hub assembly, back in 1972, with a 4 1/2" inch bolt pattern, for an A body automobile. It certainly wouldn't have been for any regular, assembly line, production, automobiles. Running off a batch of them, as replacement parts, for a 68 Superstocker, who knows. I doubt if anyone knows. I used to rebuild these Kelsey Hayes a body disc brake systems for resale purposes, and i kept track of all the ones that i rebuilt during the 12, 13 years that i was doing them. Rebuilt 32 sets of brakes in that time frame, and never came across anything with 4 1/2" inch bolt pattern, for a Mopar A body automobile. If you do have a 68 Superstock pair, they certainly would be dinosaur eggs, hens teeth, unobtanium parts, to have in this day and age. But a very, very, limited market for them if the rotors aren't machined undersize already. For street A body cars, the enthusiasts are just buying the one piece Mustang rotors for 4 1/2" bolt pattern machined for a Mopar, that a machinist, vendor, advertises on the web sites.
Last edited by hemi71x; 05/22/18 02:39 PM.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2499112
05/22/18 04:05 PM
05/22/18 04:05 PM
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hemi71x
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The rotors were used in 66 trans am cars. Actually they were first developed for that or the Rally off road 63-65 A-bodies Scott Harvey and others campaigned.
Mopar in the mid 60’s had an over the counter performance parts listing/catalog. These disks may have been available even then in those list/catalogs. Humm, good to know. Thank's.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: hemi71x]
#2499117
05/22/18 04:14 PM
05/22/18 04:14 PM
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autoxcuda
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The rotors were used in 66 trans am cars. Actually they were first developed for that or the Rally off road 63-65 A-bodies Scott Harvey and others campaigned.
Mopar in the mid 60’s had an over the counter performance parts listing/catalog. These disks may have been available even then in those list/catalogs. Humm, good to know. Thank's. I’m not sure if they were available over the counter. I have a 65 or 66 Performance Parts list from a Super Stock magazine or something. I have to check it tonight. Not sure if there are scans of those list available online.
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499202
05/22/18 08:30 PM
05/22/18 08:30 PM
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dragon slayer
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Here are the back pictures and there was a number on the rotor. If the Dorman Catalog is correct the studs in these, and they seemed to be original are a 1972 stud. Cross to a 3580598 Chrysler part number. Which some dealer have listed incorrectly as a rear stud.
I also noticed that the casting symbol after the rotor number looks like a casting symbol I have seen on the 90425 KH type Pin Caliper Brackets.
Last edited by dragon slayer; 05/22/18 08:32 PM.
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: hemi71x]
#2499320
05/23/18 01:44 AM
05/23/18 01:44 AM
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hemi71x
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The Mustang rotors did not look like that and were one-piece. Then it's pretty much a given that he has a pair of 68 Hemi Dart, Barracuda rotors & hubs. All the 4 "inch bolt pattern, 65-72 Kelsey Hayes, 4 piston caliper, disc brake systems, that i have worked on, have the letters K/H cast into the back side of the hub. I see the letters DSK on the hub in the picture. Meaning Disc? To me, i feel that is manufacturing ID for those special 4 1/2" bolt pattern hubs. What are your intentions for those rotors & hubs? You got yourself a Superstock car? I'm not a buyer or anything like that, but your posting peaked my interest. I have heard of those rotors & hubs, but never have seen any in person, or pictures of them before this. Thank's for sharing.
Last edited by hemi71x; 05/23/18 01:45 AM.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499366
05/23/18 09:46 AM
05/23/18 09:46 AM
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pittsburghracer
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I forget the company but they used to have a jig for drilling the old KH rotors so you could run a 4 1/2 inch bolt pattern. We looked into it and hit a dead-end and ended up having his done locally. Worked out great for him and he updated his OLD centerline wheels. 23023734_10155737519032777_1329839039_n by John Cadamore, on Flickr
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499367
05/23/18 09:47 AM
05/23/18 09:47 AM
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autoxcuda
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Thank you for sharing the pictures and info. Really neat to see these up close out of a car.
Could you measure the register diameter at the bottom where the wheel sits ?
I’ve never measured, I thought it was probably b-body register. But never had clarification.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 05/23/18 09:49 AM.
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: Mattax]
#2499615
05/23/18 06:53 PM
05/23/18 06:53 PM
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Just checked. Not mentioned in the Feb 1966 Prep Notes 1. What about the FIA papers on the team starfish site? In a Ehrenberg article on Scott Harvey it said they had them for 66. Torozzi does not have drawings/notes to make them special. He has stuff on everything else. Torozzi helped a little on the 66 Trans Am after hour employee team.
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499632
05/23/18 07:30 PM
05/23/18 07:30 PM
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cudaman1969
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Sure would have made it simple to have those back then and now. I like the "feel" of those better than the later single piston. And no overbite!
Last edited by cudaman1969; 05/23/18 07:30 PM.
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2499648
05/23/18 08:02 PM
05/23/18 08:02 PM
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Mattax
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Just checked. Not mentioned in the Feb 1966 Prep Notes 1. What about the FIA papers on the team starfish site? In a Ehrenberg article on Scott Harvey it said they had them for 66. Torozzi does not have drawings/notes to make them special. He has stuff on everything else. Torozzi helped a little on the 66 Trans Am after hour employee team. I pretty sure I have an e-mail or PM with Rick E and he didn't know for sure. Maybe Mike has something, but the FIA papers don't mention the bolt circle; the width, diameter, and material yes. Is there a way to estimate when a part was released based on the part number? (Not that means a prototype couldn't have been used earlier.)
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Re: A Body Disc Brake Anomlie with 4.5" bolt pattern??
[Re: dragon slayer]
#2499680
05/23/18 09:18 PM
05/23/18 09:18 PM
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dragon slayer
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So for the LBP Rotor I measured the Rotor Hole dia which is about 2.90". The Rotor hat area is about 6" Diameter and tapers larger at the rotor surface.
The hub inner register that goes into the rotor is also 2.90". The Hub Flange diameter is about 6.17". The hub diameter at the wheel hole is 2.70". This hub flange is also about .020" thicker then a SBP A Body rotor. Thickness where studs go through hub.
I took apart an older A Body SBP rotor that was heavily worn, but had 7/16 Left Hand Studs. KH Stamped. You will love the picture as the rotor was so thin on one side it pushed the hat area through the rotor when I pressed it out.
The Original KH SBP Rotor Hat area is very similar in all dimensions as the LBP Rotor. Same hole size for hub.
Also this Hub had the Same symbol as the LBP, a small O inside a box. Not sure if KH had their own foundry or subed out the casting. Did have K/H Letter as you can see.
The SBP Hub has a 5.76" Flange Dia with 2.30" Wheel register. The hub rotor side Dia is the same as the LBP at 2.90" So I can swap hubs between the two rotor, the stud holes just do not match up. Plus the LBP Studs have a .625" Knurl, while the 7/16 studs are the stock .56?" Dia.
Basically the LBP Hub is a beefer hub like B/E body two pieces but with all the other attributes/dimensions of the smaller A body hub other then the changes needed to be a LBP hub.
Pictures are the Original KH SBP hub I took apart this afternoon.
Last edited by dragon slayer; 05/23/18 09:20 PM.
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