We are getting ready to build a 440 source 438 kit with stealth heads for a 1969 roadrunner with a four speed, 3.55 posi and a factory air grabbe, our questions are, what intake carb combo will work with the factory air grabber set up, what pistons, flat tops or dished should we run and which non comp camshaft would be a good selection with this combination ??

On my 69 Super Bee, we cut the center out of a 440 based air grabber baseplate. I'm running an M1 with an AED 950 on my 400 based stroker. Looks stock with the air cleaner assembly installed. Good luck.

What exhaust manifolds/headers

What heads?

What kind of HP/TQ expectations do you have?

Power brakes?

What type of idle quality are you ok with?

With a 383 air cleaner base you can only use a stock height intake and a stock height carb, no spacers or adapters allowed.

With a 440 air cleaner base you can use an intake that is maybe an 1" taller?

Again, stealth heads,
Trying to figure out what Cam/ carb and intake combo,
Would like to be around 400-425hp/475-500 TQ
Manual brakes, nice loopy idle.
TTI coated headers with 2-1/2-3” dual exhaust system and 3 chamber flow nasties.

I’m thinking the performer RPM intake and a Lunati voodoo 10230703LK
.494/.513 lift 268/276 duration.maybe a Holley 750 dp.

Use this w/ the 383 air cleaner.

http://www.manciniracing.com/mara13aircld.html

Here's my 2-cents.

1. JohnRR is exactly correct. You need to run a stock height intake manifold. I'm not positive which ones are stock height. The 440-style (GTX) air cleaner gives you about 1" more clearance for a 1" taller intake vs. stock. Airgrabbers are SUPER tight for hood clearance.

2. Tempest idea of a drop base is good except it is not compatible with a 69 airgrabber air cleaner....unless you cut up an airgrabber base and graft it in. (69's are big oval air cleaners, even the 4bbl ones).

3. Your cam sound reasonable...."maybe" one step larger, but for good drivability it sounds about right. You will get 100 opinions on the cam. Some people on here are much more knowledgeable than I am on cams.

4. I would suggest a Holley 750 vacuum secondary (WAY better gas mileage), but for a track car, a double pumper with the 4spd would be good. You might look at some of the performance Holley-style carburetors too if you plan to race.

You're basically building a 440.
Any 440 with Stealth heads should be able to make 400-425hp falling out of bed. In other words, a Comp XE268 will probably do it. Don't believe me? Go back on this board and see what Fast68 did with one. But to get the "loopy" idle you need a different cam, either the Hughes smaller Whiplash or the Comp Thumper. Hughes says maximum compression ratio is 10.0:1 so that's what you build the engine to. If the piston requires some sort of a dish, be sure to use a piston with a "D-shaped" or "Inverted dome" dish.

I think you're looking at 450hp or maybe more.

R.

hi
get a edelbrock dp4b and a 750 vac sec holley , it will all fit your set up without mods.

find a crane 278 hmv cam .make it 10-1 comp you will smile every time you drive it !

On your deal a 850 CFM carb, a Holley late model D.P. or similar size from another good comapny, would be my choice due to the C.I. and longer stroke
Every RB motor I have added CFM to( a lot of them!) went quicker and faster at the track, which means they all made more power with more air and fuel consumption
The drivers right foot determines how much air and fuel the motor consumes when being operated, the carb. size determines how much it will get at WOT only
On the camshaft I like and use Comp Cams, take a look at the older Magnum 292H grind for your deal or maybe one of the later bigger XE or XE-HL grinds
No matter what you choose and use make sure to degree it in to the proper position

On my 69 GTX with air grabber and stroked RB, I have a Holley Street Dominator intake with Proform 850 DP carb. I had to modify the air cleaner base to make everything work but it fits with the stock hood.

Personally I have never like comp Cams as I see more of the go flat hands down than all others combined. I have worked in two automotive machine shops in the past .
You guys have some really good ideas !!!

Racer brown st-22 solid flat tappet or an ssh-24 hyd. and a 770 holley street avenger carb.

Comp Cams has been the major player in the after market cam business for a lot of years, when you sell the most of any products you will have at least as many failures as every one else but who remembers the failures of the other companies that couldn't keep up with the leader in volume
A lot of cam failures are the engine assemblers fault regardless of the brand due to not getting the motor started right away and breaking in the cam and lifters properly

I'm curious, Why not use a 400 block?

Missed the air grabber part.

I think the owner wants the stealth look of a stock engine. Plus he has 4-383s and no 400s

Just got mine on the street for its initial test after a year

Numbers Matching 383 Magnum / 440 Source 432 Stroker

Kit came with Icon Pistons - 10.3 Comp

Had my engine builder balance the crank

440 Source Billet steel main caps - Line bored

Edelbrock E Street Heads 75cc

Factory HP Exhaust Manifolds

Howards Cams Billet 9 way adjustable Timing gears/Chain

Comp Cams XE 275HL - After degree installed straight up or dot to dot

Brand new Weiand Dual Plane Intake

Factory 1971 440 HP Carter AVS 750cfm that I worked with Edelbrock Jets/Metering Rods / Springs and Covers

Numbers Auto Trans Rebuilt running a new Turbo Action Street Valve Body

Factory 3:91 Sure Grip

Right now running about 18 degrees initial with 18 degrees mechanical 36 Total

Starts and idle is awesome even cold with no choke

Only thing at times with that cam and lifters sounds like a overpowered sewing machine when cold , quites up better when hot

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil Silver Bottle 10w30

Hot idle 25psi Hot cruise 75 psi oil pressure

Off idle 700 Rpms I can destroy/burn the 275/15" Cooper Tires from Green Bay to Chicago if I wanted

Now I have a real dilemma , TRACTION at stop lights

I wanted TORQUE off idle to say around 5600 5800 rpms for street use only

Will drive it for awhile before deciding on possibly a new carb and maybe maybe headers

Weather sucks in WI , snow tonight

One more thing with that Weiand dual plane #8008

I get to run my factory dual snorkel that I had powdercoated wrinkle finish with a deeper air filter about an inch higher under the factory bulge hood without touching , what I wanted a factory look

thanks everyone,UPDATE
the block is now rough bored to .060 and still trying to decide between flat tops and dished pistons for this build. looking hard at the weiand action plus intake and a voodoo cam Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .475/.494
LSA/ICL: 112/108
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 1400-5800

any ideas for the piston choice as the heads have a 80cc combustion chamber.
also what is the best way to stop a 833 four speed from leaking around the tail shaft??


thanks Moparts!!!!

As far as the last question. Make sure the mating surfaces are really clean and use a NEW gasket. An old oil soaked gasket will act like a wick and the oil will seep through. I am assuming you are talking where the tail bolts to the main case.

Jeff

If you're running exhaust manifolds, honestly, you probably can't get better than the original .528 MP solid-lifter camshaft (.502" lift after lash). AndyF did some pretty extensive testing, this camshaft was the best he found for exhaust-manifold applications. The VooDoo series wasn't available at that time, the Lunati camshaft above has less than 240* duration; you should be fine with running manifolds.

On the intake, it's tough for the low-decks. I would personally go with a Holley Street Dominator, wouldn't even consider anything else.

hi
flat tops fore sure for the pistons !

80 cc and a dished piston you are going to have a Looow compression dog !

jeff, yes we're talking about tail shaft housing and he even bought the trick gasket that brewer's sells and a local transmission shop install it when they rebuilt the trany.
Sweet5, we are running TTI coated headers, but we have the airgrabber so intake height is very important.

and I agree with the flat top pistons.

Go to United Machine, KB web site and use the compression ratio calculator to find out exactly what true mechanical compression ratio you will get with flat top pistons with valve reliefs, 80..0 CC heads and a .039 or .042 thick head gasket with a 4.40 bore size
You may need a 10 to 12 CC reverse dome, half dish piston to keep the compression under 10.5 to 1 or so for todays pump swill

so i did as you said and WOW! a flat top it going to be to much with the stealth heads. I'm looking for a CR of around 9.5-9.7. Might have to find a cam to bleed some compression off.

How do you figure

I am running the same kit , .030 over so 432 Stroker from 440 source

Running there Icon flat top pistons with 4cc valve reliefs and 75 cc Edelbrock heads I am at 10.4 compression with a .039 Fel Pro Gasket , pistons where around .020 in the hole after cleaning up the block decks . Yes my quench isn’t perfect but I already had the Edelbrock 75 cc heads prior to the rebuild

I can run 91-93 octane on the street no problems and currently at 36 degrees total timing

Your Stealth Heads are closer to 80 cc

You should bee around 10.1 compression or a little less because those Icon pistons are .025 down in the hole factory block

Are you at zero deck or did your machine shop just clean ?

383 .060 Over 438 Stroker 440 Source Icon Pistons Flat Tops

Bore size 4.310
Stroke 3.75
Rod 6.76
Comp Height 1.320
Below Deck -.025
4cc Valve reliefs

I should have mentioned to make sure and use + CC for vale reliefs or dished piston volume and - CC for dome pistons on that website
Try redoing your calculations using the same info except for adding the + and then change it to the - sign

we havent decked the block yet, but the last one of these kits i did was the same but the customer wanted to keep the stock iron exhaust manifolds on the stealth heads with a rather large cam and has a bit of over heating problem during a summer where we had many triple digits days.

also we used the flat tops zero decked the block

Does the driveshaft have a yoke with a groove worn in it?

Anybody used the Mopar performance aluminum dual plane intake pn P4529117
It has an rpm range of idle to 5800?

I have one on my 451 , Ram Charger set up. Has tremendous low end and pull to 6k rather quickly.Im shure a performer RPM would work better but will not fit the hood .

Very nice on the Weiand but it might be to tall for the airgrabber.

Sweet, that’s what I wanted to hear, now I just have to find one.
Anybody? P4529117 intake for sale, I will post up in the right area.

What heads are you running on your 451?

Eddy RPM OOTB

If you can find one , it's no longer made , that intake is an alum copy of the 70/72 factory 4bbl and should clear air grabber using the stock 383 base.

Also look for an Ebrock DP4B, that is a tad taller than stock but it clears , I run one on the 383 in my 69 bee with airgraabber.

I also have a stock 70/72 Iron intake that's bee acid ported that I got off a board member that got it from a stock class racer.